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Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

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Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#101

Post by petra »

treehau5 wrote: post #45
notadoc wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually) That is exactly what college is, and is supposed to be. Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and…

> That's it. Actually, you scratched the surface, but it goes so much further than that -- that sadly most of our modern universities have lost sight of. I've posted this in previous comments, but universities are actually suppose to help build more just societies -- an idea Plato describes as the purpose of university, and echoed by many chancellors across the country. "The goal of university education is to help bu…

If you want to improve selfishness,look at places where such change may happen , for example in: the military{honor code?}, religion/spirituality, deep relationships{especially with non-selfish people}, being strongly exposed to the suffering of others,meeting emotional role models.

Those seem very deep emotional experiences, very different from the experience of being in college(mostly intellectual, or the college socialization process - i.e. the frat etc).

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#102

Post by Chathamization »

notadoc wrote: post #36
goldfeld wrote: post #30

Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually), a nice option for those who can afford it. Not everyone has to be coaxed into entrepreneurship, it's an evil of our consumerist age. Your kid would probably rather participate in society at large than in your suicidal runway idea of a romanticized youth of m…

> offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually) That is exactly what college is, and is supposed to be. Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not. It was never intended to be. College is supposed to give someone a broader perspective, a more complex worldview, exposure to a vast array of topics and…

> Many people make the mistake of thinking that college is a jobs training program, or a career readiness program - it's not.

The numerous jobs that require a college degree as a prerequisite suggest that it's the de facto job credential program for a large chunk of the economy. The fact of the matter is, if you want to get into a lot of (though not all) high paying jobs, college is a necessity, and that's likely the reason almost all college students are going to college (how many students are taking classes after they graduate?).

We can talk about what college theoretically could be, but it's important not to ignore what college currently is.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#103

Post by [deleted] »

09bjb wrote: post #61
treehau5 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's it. Actually, you scratched the surface, but it goes so much further than that -- that sadly most of our modern universities have lost sight of. I've posted this in previous comments, but universities are actually suppose to help build more just societies -- an idea Plato describes as the purpose of university, and echoed by many chancellors across the country. "The goal of university education is to help bu…

I think this is what everyone is missing. If we're treating college strictly as a financial ROI calculation (which, partly, it is) it's obviously getting dicier by the year. This is exacerbated by Colleges and Universities treating every major from Economics to Cultural Studies as if they held roughly equal career prospects (they obviously don't). Yes, it is a luxury to have the time to take a step back and consider…

[deleted]

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#104

Post by khedoros1 »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #66
Hydraulix989 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're conflating college with professional school.

Colleges conflate college with professional school. The first time I visited my alma mater as a high school senior, I told them I wanted to be a programmer when I grew up, and they said "You'll want our computer science program, then." Nobody ever recommended me to a technical school instead, or told me that the CS program would teach me very basic programming, lots of academically interesting stuff about operating s…

Classes taught me in one area. Student-organized study groups, living with classmates, taking part in on and off-campus programming competitions, and working on side projects with the people I met at school taught me in other areas. Both were part of "college", to me; I wouldn't have done all the campus-life stuff if I hadn't been there.

CS itself was always presented to me as the science that acts as a basis for the more practical engineering side of things. It was supposed to be the theory underlying the practice. That's what I paid for, and that's what I think I got (with the remainder of my experience being what I made of it). So, college could've been useless crap. For me, it wasn't.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#105

Post by lazaroclapp »

20years wrote: post #50
manbearpigg wrote: post #8

A fully qualified engineer will be in a much better position to provide valuable products and services than an 18 year old noob. I guess it's better than a gender studies degree, but believe it or not, undergraduate education is not completely useless. I learned a hell of a lot.

"A fully qualified engineer will be in a much better position to provide valuable products and services than an 18 year old noob." Not sure I totally agree with this. I have meet a ton of very smart fully qualified engineers who have no business sense whatsoever. That does not mean I am discounting the engineering degree. Not at all. At least an engineering degree will generally give you a very nice return. What make…

Guess the point is: All else being equal, someone with a relevant degree will have an easier time being a successful entrepreneur (and, not less important: a reasonable backup plan) than someone fresh out of high school. Likely they will have a better network too. And this is all assuming that entrepreneurship is really the goal, which, lets face it, for most people is an unreasonable trade-off of safety, personal time, health and comfort for nebulous "freedom" and a very unlikely chance at striking gold.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#106

Post by MaulingMonkey »

goldfeld wrote: post #30

Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure, as opposed to offering an exploratory period of life that is college (socially and intellectually), a nice option for those who can afford it. Not everyone has to be coaxed into entrepreneurship, it's an evil of our consumerist age. Your kid would probably rather participate in society at large than in your suicidal runway idea of a romanticized youth of m…

> Sounds like a horrible idea full of assumptions and pressure,

You've just described how I view the idea of myself going to college straight after high school, despite being quite able to afford an exploratory period and having been a straight A student for a long time. I was burned out on studying for a grade (among other things).

While you're right to be wary of shoving someone onto the entrepreneurship track, you'll not convince me that shoving them onto the college track is necessarily better. There are plenty of stories of burned cash, family resentment over "wasted" college educations, and learning the sometimes brutal lessons that your college degree (if you managed to finish it) no longer guarantees you a good job, or that debt sucks.

I ended up spending very little of my "college" fund, and after some much cheaper and less stressful non-college exploration, eventually landed a career in gamedev - something I'd extensively studied outside of school for myself and my interests rather than a grade, and cost me very little more than my time.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#108

Post by RobbieStats »

Pamar wrote: post #86
RobbieStats wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you didn't read the article. The whole point is to provide more options than the single track path that has dominated the post high school mindset, not to say they have to go one way or another. Plenty of great entrepreneurs start their company with little to no experience. Having done both, I think you can learn a lot more starting a company than you can at college.

I am not sure that "starting something" is a good idea when one of the two alternatives can be completed succesfully by applying yourself diligently (i.e. studying hard enough to pass with good grades) while the other can fail for any of a large number of reasons, mostly outside of your control. I.e. if the author's son or daughter opts for starting a company, works hard and diligently, and after three years it goes…

I left an amazing job at a high tech company to start my own company. We had a successful exit five years later, but I've always said that if the company went belly up after 2 or 3 years it would have been WELL worth it. I don't associate being a successful entrepreneur or having success with a big exit. The point is to learn and try new things.

Of course I'd help my kid get the company off the ground in whatever capacity they'd like. I help a half dozen companies now in an advisory role and I'd do the same for them.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#109

Post by 34090doood9 »

tudorw wrote: post #10

I went the build your business route, if I had my time again I'd get the degree first, compared to the time, effort and risk of building a business taking 5 years to get a degree seems like time well spent. Getting a degree does not preclude you from starting a business, the reverse is not so universally true as youth is on your side when funding education in most countries. Few of my peers work in fields related to…

There's a certain cultural or community hypocrisy in these discussions. Not at the level of individuals necessarily, but it seems in reading through HN and other sites, there's two opposite messages I see:

The first is "degree doesn't matter! You need to go out and build something, and you don't need a degree to do it!"

The other is "we won't hire anyone except those with X STEM degree, possibly even not anyone unless they have a master's degree or higher."

As someone considering a career change (with an advanced degree) it's maddening. The message seems to be that if you don't have a core STEM degree, or haven't started a self-sustaining mega-profitable business, you have no ability to do anything.

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, other than that societal perceptions of skill and ability seem seriously pathological.

I don't think everyone needs an undergrad degree, but it sure doesn't hurt. But by the same token, a degree isn't everything, and I think people need to take this position seriously if they're going to take it.

Re: Replacing My Kid’s College Fund with a “Start Something” Fund

#110

Post by 20years »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #105
20years wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A fully qualified engineer will be in a much better position to provide valuable products and services than an 18 year old noob." Not sure I totally agree with this. I have meet a ton of very smart fully qualified engineers who have no business sense whatsoever. That does not mean I am discounting the engineering degree. Not at all. At least an engineering degree will generally give you a very nice return. What make…

Guess the point is: All else being equal, someone with a relevant degree will have an easier time being a successful entrepreneur (and, not less important: a reasonable backup plan) than someone fresh out of high school. Likely they will have a better network too. And this is all assuming that entrepreneurship is really the goal, which, lets face it, for most people is an unreasonable trade-off of safety, personal ti…

"All else being equal, someone with a relevant degree will have an easier time being a successful entrepreneur"

I think that is where we may disagree.

Plenty of Entrepreneurs who made it big without a degree. Some of the top of our time actually. http://www.businessinsider.com/top-100-entrepreneurs-who-mad...

"for most people is an unreasonable trade-off of safety, personal time, health and comfort for nebulous "freedom" and a very unlikely chance at striking gold."

This I somewhat agree with but I oftentimes wonder if a lot of the "very unlikely chance" part of it has to do with the inaccurate and unrealistic image the start-up scene places along with the lack of good education on starting a business. You can build a very comfortable life running your own business without being a unicorn but seems as though most are shooting for unicorn level. That I believe is where most of the failure comes from.

It really isn't all that difficult to build a $200k to $500k+ year small business. Easier today than ever. But that's not sexy so people shoot for the stars and miss more often than not.

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