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Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

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Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#101

Post by carbocation »

crocowhile wrote: post #97
carbocation wrote: post #45

Hacker News reminds me of my first year of med school. Everyone is smart and fundamentally clueless about human pathophysiology. It's a wonderful thing, learning about the fruits of devilishly challenging science. But it's also a conspiratorial time. I suspect the reason is that first year med students suddenly feel empowered by the small amounts of knowledge that they have gained. HNers probably feel empowered for a…

>This current article discusses how someone was denied funding for human trials of stem cell therapy despite the fact that it cured T1D in animal models Weissman is not "someone". He is one of the founding fathers of the stem cell field and has done amazing thing. He is a leader in the field and got really amazing results with animals. Sorry to say that but you sound like the first year student here.

Your comment comes off like a mix of appeal to authority with a touch of ad hominem. Do you disagree with what I've written? Is my failure to explain why 'this "someone" is a big deal' (which I felt was pretty well explained in the article itself) your primary concern?

In my other comments on this thread, you can see that I feel his work is important. So if you're concerned, as is implied in your language, about my respect for his work, you can rest assured.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#102

Post by dennisgorelik »

donw wrote: post #21
dennisgorelik wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a classic example of an area where government can NOT do better than business, because government sucks at innovation. There are plenty of companies that are not selling insulin, so they would be interested to be able to sell diabetes cure. Assuming the chances of developing the cure are reasonably good.

Wow, massive strawman. The government sucks at innovation? Who do you think funded and developed ARPANet? You know, the network we're using to communicate right now. Upon which countless businesses have been built. Nuclear power? Government. First electronic computer? Government. Furthermore, when it comes to drug discovery, that 'evil government' has one advantage over businesses, because they have no profit motive.…

I just learned what "straw man" logical fallacy is: http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html#Straw%20man Do you imply that I put words into someone elses mouth that they did not say?

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#103

Post by jmcarlin »

MichaelSalib wrote: post #35
hackermom wrote: post #26

To state the obvious: there's more money in keeping people ill and in need of temporary amelioration than there is in curing them, and such is the foundation of american pharmaceutical industry.

Is this really true in this case? I mean, insulin is fairly cheap, right?

Cheap/expensive is relative. More importantly, insulin is only a tiny cost of the care of Type 1 diabetes. Diabetics need to check blood sugar levels anywhere from 3-5 times a day, sometimes more if ill or for other circumstances. Test strips can cost a patient as much as $1 per strip.

Also, insulin requires a subcutaneous injection for delivery. That means a new syringe 3-4 times per day depending on the therapy. Or, you could get an insulin pump at about $5k and pay for insets, tubing, reservoirs and other miscellaneous supplies. Those need to be swapped out every three days.

Want to add continuous glucose monitoring to your therapy? Even more supplies. Add it all up and treating T1 diabetes is nothing close to cheap no matter how deep your pockets are.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#104

Post by stretchwithme »

ahoyhere wrote: post #79
Vivtek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coral snake antivenom is a similar thing - the last manufacturer left a supply of a few years that is now running out, but the process for approving a new manufacturer for the same drug is so expensive that the market won't support it. So first responders in Florida have a problem. No coral snake antivenom. A similar market situation applies to flu shots. The current system favors "maintenance pharmaceuticals", not c…

Excellent examples. A free marketeer, as you say, would say that the reason nobody is making more antivenin is because the "process for applying" is so expensive - but of course, there has to be quality control, and more importantly, there's every reason to believe that the manufacture would be more expensive than the applying. Govt regulation is used as a scapegoat. The market for creating this product is just not d…

I am not against government or rules. I am against the idea that coercion is the means. Voluntary cooperation, not the use of force, is the means by which we create solutions to all sorts of problems.

Health is no different. It suffers over the long term when people think the use of force to get some short term benefit.

Somehow we live our lives with the understanding that forcing those around to do what we want would destructive, even if it was somehow benevolent. But collectively, we've convinced ourselves that this cannot be the case.

Perhaps it is because the dominant opinion is actually propagated with our own money even if we don't agree and alternative perspectives buried by the mesh of financing and media access of government.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#105

Post by stretchwithme »

carbocation wrote: post #45

Hacker News reminds me of my first year of med school. Everyone is smart and fundamentally clueless about human pathophysiology. It's a wonderful thing, learning about the fruits of devilishly challenging science. But it's also a conspiratorial time. I suspect the reason is that first year med students suddenly feel empowered by the small amounts of knowledge that they have gained. HNers probably feel empowered for a…

Nobody would have funded many bad ideas. That's when you turn to government to do it.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#106

Post by karsa »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #63
karsa wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One such case is of Barry Marshall and H.Pylori, he was awarded the nobel price in 2005 for discovering the cure to ulcers, (antibiotics) but he first discovered the cure in 1983 and after about 10 years of 'trying' to convince the medical community of which (Glaxo who was dominant in that market) was making 90% of their profits from Zantac (an anti acid treatment) - (known inside as the 'Zantac years'), they were ac…

Barry Marshall did not have to convince Glaxo Kline Smith. He had to convince other doctors and scientists. I don't believe that companies can often keep genies in bottles, but dogma and groupthink is another matter.

He was also ignored totally by all the main stream publications, it was later alleged they had close ties to Glaxo and the editors were fully aware of the significance the impact would have had on Glaxo.

http://www.orc.ru/~yur77/pylori.htm

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#107

Post by JosefK »

karsa wrote: post #54
detst wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I can't really disagree with you, I don't think it's crazy to think that there are many influential people and organizations that have a strong interest in seeing that we avoid potential cures for common diseases. As such, I don't think this type of reaction is necessarily based largely in ignorance. Then again, I'm largely ignorant on this subject so I'm certainly not making any accusations in this case.

One such case is of Barry Marshall and H.Pylori, he was awarded the nobel price in 2005 for discovering the cure to ulcers, (antibiotics) but he first discovered the cure in 1983 and after about 10 years of 'trying' to convince the medical community of which (Glaxo who was dominant in that market) was making 90% of their profits from Zantac (an anti acid treatment) - (known inside as the 'Zantac years'), they were ac…

This story seems to have at least the air of exaggeration around it. See http://www.csicop.org/si/show/bacteria_ulcers_and_ostracism_... for the history around the adoption of H. Pylori hypothesis.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#108

Post by rsheridan6 »

karsa wrote: post #106
rsheridan6 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barry Marshall did not have to convince Glaxo Kline Smith. He had to convince other doctors and scientists. I don't believe that companies can often keep genies in bottles, but dogma and groupthink is another matter.

He was also ignored totally by all the main stream publications, it was later alleged they had close ties to Glaxo and the editors were fully aware of the significance the impact would have had on Glaxo. http://www.orc.ru/~yur77/pylori.htm

The article claims, without evidence, that Nature and Science didn't publish Marshall because of ties with Glaxo. Even if that's true, there are a lot of other journals out there. Are they ALL in Glaxos pocket?

I doubt it. But they're all reviewed by his peers, who made a living by giving endoscopies and prescriptions to patients every year or so.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#109

Post by mattmanser »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #94
dpik wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A steal at a thousand dollars ? I have Type 1 and would consider an actual cure a great deal even if it cost everything I own plus my entire earnings for 10 years.

I'm in the wrong business.

Find a cure for old age. Millionaires would give you virtually anything.

Re: Scientist who cured type I Diabetes in mice was denied funding for human trials

#110

Post by dennisgorelik »

crocowhile wrote: post #95
dennisgorelik wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) Please show me "pretty much everything" that government developed in the last 30 years. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1465878 2) "Man on the moon" is pretty much useless for us. 3) Government didn't give us Internet as we know it now. Not even close. Government contributed may be ~1% into Internet (if even that). Considering how much that contribution costs to taxpayers every year -- government performance l…

1) I have been working as researcher for the past 12 years or so (cancer and neurobiology). Pretty much everything in the field of medical science is founded mainly by public money: this goes for salary and research money. Private contribution is quite minimal and proximal to zero in basic research. 2) Wut? Do you have any idea on the level of technological transfer that space research brings to your everyday life? T…

1) I see now where misunderstanding is coming from. I'm stating that government is poor at innovating. You are stating that government is a good source of funding. These statements do not contradict to each other. I agree that government funds lots of projects. It's just that practical results are not impressive at all.

2) Considering the cost of "Man on the Moon" project, the benefits for us are pretty slim. If I take from you, say, $10K, and then give you back $3K, I can claim that you should be happy, because I'm helping you by giving $3K. Right? 3) CERN is NOT a government.

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