I guess you need to decide what is important to you. For example, a few years ago, this was published [0]: > One of the most contentious issues in the vast literature about alcohol consumption has been the consistent finding that those who don't drink tend to die sooner than those who do http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2017200...
Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
101–110 of 250 posts
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#102would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.
> everyone knows drinking is bad for you Citations (plural) needed. Without meta-studies and peer responses in subsequent papers and studies, this is just using a single article for confirmation bias. In the actual scientific world, studies have been mixed since forever on the subject, with moderate wine drinking for example having shown in many studies favourable results for cardiovascular health and other aspects.…
everything here is irrelevant. drinking has no benefits compared to water. period. again, would you give a little kid a beer for the purported "benefits"? No. Because you know it's not better than the alternative.
also, there's no proof alcohol is the reason. perhaps it's the social ties that alcohol can help form. regardless, alcohol has little (if any) health benefit, compared to drinking good 'ol water.
you claim drinking is good, OK, bring the proof. I claim it's bad. easy to prove: drunkenness, brain toxicity, decision inhibition, to start. not to mention the ability to kill you much easier than water from consistent consumption.
> Anyone who disagrees even for casual drinking is probably too afraid of dying -- but they are gonna die the same as everybody else anyway, and often having lived shorter lives than many of their drinking friends.
don't b silly. your rationalization of bad behavior is amusing. reminds me of my homeless friend who does cocaine. there are also people who don't drink who live longer than people who do. the point isn't longevity. the point is -- is alcohol what does it? the answer is a resounding "no." everything you're saying here was said about tobacco.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the request here isn't to change this paper, or the article, but for the headline to be "Even moderate drinking correlated with atrophy in brain areas..." This is on the editor's heads.
i'm saying that headline says too little. The authors of the paper strongly suggest that there is a causative effect in the paper, and I think its very reasonable this is reflected in the title of the headline. [edit] Even the title of the original paper is "Moderate alcohol consumption as risk factor for adverse brain outcomes and cognitive decline" which suggest causation. why should the headline be weaker than the…
Jumping to conclusions in the popular press hurts the reputation of scientists. Journalists and editors have been doing this for years, especially on topics that sell papers, specifically what to eat and what to not eat, how to gain or lose weight, or how to live longer.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to the study which was linked in another comment [1] they were using the standard defined in [2]. This site shows that one pint of lager counts as 2 units of alcohol. One pint is 19.2 oz [3]. A bottle of beer is usually 12 oz, aka 5/8 of a pint, aka 1.25 units of alcohol. I trust the source over the science journalist. [1] http://www.bmj.com/content/357/bmj.j2353 [2] https://www.alcoholconcern.org.uk/unit-c…
They give a more helpful description within the paper as well. > 1 unit contains 10 mL or 8 g of alcohol > 14 units (UK guidance per week for men and women) is equivalent to 4 pints of high strength beer or 5 large glasses of 14% wine (see below) > 24.5 units (US guidance for men) is equivalent to 7 pints of beer or 9 glasses of wine So 4 pints of high strength beer is 14 "units". 5.2% is the value used, which I woul…
So, in US terms, UK guidance is ~5 pints and US/men is ~8.5 pints. Not a huge difference in terms of point made, but mostly so the message doesn't get garbled over the pond.
Also, their "high strength beer" in the paper (5.2%) is pretty much normal for American lager, so don't get thrown off by the high strength bit.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#105With that kind of methodology, I imagine the "moderate" drinkers are going to contain the group of people who said they (frequently) drink, but not that much. I'd be willing to bet there will be a relationship between reporting that you drink frequently and the negative effects of alcohol that will outweigh the attempt to self report how much you drink (because the latter won't be reported accurately, but people who don't drink will tend to more accurately report and select themselves out into another category. Not only is it easier to self report whether you are a non drinker/drinker than it is to report you are a moderate/heavy drinker, I imagine there's also another confounding effect coming through given that there generally has to be something exceptional about you to be a non-drinker in our societies.
Self-disclosure: practically a non-drinker, nothing ideologically against it. Might have a beer every two months socially with food.
Thoughts? Especially from anyone reading the actual study?
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right of course, but the "correct" amount of alcohol is still going to be much more toxic than most other foods that enter your body. Alcohol is a poison.
> Alcohol is a poison. A meaningless blanket statement. Methanol is a poison, far worse than ethanol, yet you've likely consumed it in small quantities from what you would think of as non-alcoholic sources. If there's no safe level alcohol consumption, you'd best stick to consuming your fruit unripened or avoiding them entirely. Again, relative toxicity is meaningless without also taking dose into account. You could…
For me the "poison" is a substance that when ingested has a significant detrimental effect on one's health. Until recently there was a myth that moderate consumption is harmless, or even beneficial. The research like this show that even small dosages have negative effects. Moderate drinking might not kill you immediately, but still it is healthier choice to avoid alcohol completely.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#107Alcohol is getting a pretty bad rap to me the more I read about it. After reading this I was curious about ways to _increase_ hippocampal function. According to [0] it seems like exercise can increase hippocampal function. Another link I can't find again since I found it on my phone and am now on my laptop indicated things like learning languages, and an omega 3 rich diet can also help. This is good news for me since…
It's funny but it's probably fairly accurate. Two 12oz 5% beers per day is not exactly extreme, and evidently many people drink 'this much' without terrible consequences. Articles like this cater mostly to people who are obsessed with articles like this.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#108I'm always interested to see how people react to a news article or study that criticizes alcohol. I have noticed over time that alcohol consumption is usually a taboo subject to discuss for some reason, and almost everyone I talk to immediately gets on the defensive when I say that I don't drink and never will. Can anyone shed some light on why exactly people don't like it when someone doesn't drink, especially when…
> almost everyone I talk to immediately gets on the defensive when I say that I don't drink and never will Choosing not to drink is your choice to make. But if _almost everyone_ you talk to about it goes into defensive mode, that sounds really weird. Are you around people that don't react normally to social situations? "No thanks, I don't drink" is a common thing to hear for anybody.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#109would you give a 5 year old a beer? no? exactly. everyone knows drinking is bad for you. they do it anyway, because "reasons" [1] anyone who disagrees is just being irrational. [1] which may include partying and hooking up, as well as removing any awkwardness they have.
Man I really wish I could like what you've said here. I too wish people would choose to stay in their right minds (vs. drunk or high), and think hookups are bad. But I also wouldn't give a 5 year old a circular saw, so that can't be the proper rationale. And you've got to be more winsome or you're doing more harm to your view than good.
Re: Moderate drinking associated with atrophy in brain related to memory, learning
#110Alcohol is getting a pretty bad rap to me the more I read about it. After reading this I was curious about ways to _increase_ hippocampal function. According to [0] it seems like exercise can increase hippocampal function. Another link I can't find again since I found it on my phone and am now on my laptop indicated things like learning languages, and an omega 3 rich diet can also help. This is good news for me since…