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So you "just need a hacker", huh?

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Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#101

Post by cstejerean »

tom_rath wrote: post #68
cstejerean wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not start coding before you fleshed out the design? Not design until you've identified a market? Sounds like a recipe for never getting anything done. That might be the proper way to tackle things when you have a big upfront costs, but generally for software you can just start coding on things you find useful and interesting. If others are interested, great, you've got a company. If not you just have a useful product…

How can you create a useful product if you haven't identified the use?

Make it useful to yourself. Solve one of your own problems. Chances are others have the same problem as you.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#102

Post by eusman »

pg wrote: post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

so, most of the new users voted up for this story, and the older users contributed the comments in the story...this is interesting about the "quality" of the users, so maybe the weighting that will affect story order, should take in mind user contribution(karma) in comments...

So, maybe comments's karma should be kept as a different record. And there should be comments weighting too, because we wouldn't want new users to game the system with each other and thus game again the weighting system for the story order.

"Quality" could be expressed as "experience" because obviously people adapted in the climate of YC.news who behave the expected way, as you say you expect to happen and thus the problem correct it self. But expecting the situation to correct it self may not be the right way.

Expected way though shouldn't be mean is the correct way, because the community would remain closed instead of being open.

So, because of the problems that arise with a weighting system making it probably not democratic, the most correct way for weighting would be to happen in manual down voting, which should appear only for "experienced users".

Weighting should happen there, so for example if you have 1 experienced user up voting and another one down voting, their vote is eliminated, which positive/negative difference could be used in two ways:

1. added in the current points of the story

2. or a non-linear scale be used that would determine the quality of the story.

what do you think?

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#103

Post by tim2 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #98
tim2 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, but we're talking about guys who think that you love programming so much that you'll just work for some of their worthless equity.

True. Asking any amount is probably enough to weed out the folks who think hackers are inter-changeable and completely devoid of business ideas or acumen. Of course, you can also just say, "No thanks, I'm working on my own idea for the time being. Best of luck to you, though." That's what I do.

My strategy has always entertained me because the guys I've known were so thrilled about their rediculous "world changing" idea that they were crushed to find that hardly any outsourcers were even interested:)

Yours will work well enough, but I also like to test to see if anyone is actually determined enough to go through all this trouble and carry out their plan anyway. Serious entrepreneurs are very few in this part of the country...

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#104

Post by pchristensen »

carpal wrote: post #77
pg wrote: post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

I never expected it to get this high. The post was a rant and, as most rants do, turned out to be a bad idea. I've temporarily replaced the rant with my more complete and restrained thoughts on the subject.

Ah, that explains it. I read the article and wondered what everyone was so worked up about. The new version that I read actually is very complimentary on the importance of hackers.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#105

Post by aswanson »

mixmax wrote: post #80
chaostheory wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

from what I gather you seem to be saying is that great product people aren't as great as great marketers / biz people and that great product ppl/devs can't simultaneously have great marketing and biz skills too

What I'm saying is that we should all try to get along and try to respect each others skills. That's all :-)

Nothing wrong with that.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#106

Post by kingkongrevenge »

azanar wrote: post #92
kingkongrevenge wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philip Greenspun wrote convincingly about how programmers are under valued because they fail to treat programming as a proper profession. They don't dress and otherwise present themselves professionally. They fail to interface professionally with customers and analysts as a doctor or lawyer would. Programmers themselves tend to demand a management style that treats them as a cog in the machine, where they are fed det…

This concept of professionalism depends very much on who you ask. Tom DeMarco and Timothy Lister, the duo behind Peopleware, might suggest that the problem isn't with the behavior of the programmers, but rather with the definition of a proper professional, and by extension the proper profession. I also think your claim of what programmers want is hasty; my experience, albeit somewhat limited, suggests that there are…

Different piece. The one I'm referring to focuses specifically on his experiences with employing programmers at arsdigita.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#107

Post by dood »

pg wrote: post #44

This would be better if the half that consists of mere insults was replaced with some ideas. There's a lot more you could say about this phenomenon, like why it happens, and what the solution might be. Once again the top story is an embarrassment to News.YC. And unfortunately it is mostly the recently arrived users who voted it up. Maybe it's inevitable that I'll have to turn on some form of vote weighting.

I think the best solution to maintaining the quality of a rapidly growing community/vote driven site is restricting the flow of new users by providing disincentives. Metafilter (for example) has a $5 sign up fee.

Requiring a small karma minimum before allowing users to vote on posts & comments, or submit new posts could work well. This way new users can only influence the community by engaging with it, which would filter out votes from casual users and trolls, while also giving new users a chance to grasp the community norms though participation.

Other approaches like vote-weighting and down-voting ignore the root of the problem, which is dilution of the community and its norms.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#108

Post by t0pj »

joseakle wrote: post #96
t0pj wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps keeping tabs on how karma is used. Are the recently arrived users simply voting up articles yet not adding any comments of their own to explain why they've voted up? How about this? If a person votes up an article (which costs a point), a contributing comment by the same person can start out at 2 points instead of 1. You're basically paying back the point taken to vote up an article. This would give more ince…

This sounds similar to the rules Yahoo Answers has. What about users who vote up a story so that it is stored in their history? I do it often, i like a story but don't think i have much to add to the conversation, but still want to keep it.

Adding a link to your list of favorites should be functionally separated from the public voting system.

There should also be some way to eliminate the votes of individuals whom you have personally black-listed .

Thus, you could toggle between the public view of the main news page with all votes counted versus the personalized view which takes your preferences into account.

Or you could allow votes from only those you have personally white-listed.

Re: So you "just need a hacker", huh?

#109

Post by h34t »

Prrometheus wrote: post #20
mixmax wrote: post #12

It's hard to find a brilliant hacker. But it's equally hard to find a brilliant marketing guy, a brilliant sales guy or a brilliant CEO. While I don't disagree with the point of the post I think that many hackers should step back and look at how many great marketing people, CEO's etc. they know. The actual programming part is only a small part of starting a company, but many hackers seem to think it is all they need…

“Founders at Work” is an interesting book because you realize that there is no One Right Way to make a successful startup, not even the Paul Graham way! Some are started by hackers only, others include capable business people who were friends of the founding hackers. Some sold a product from the get go and others just went for eye-share. There are many additional degrees of freedom. The needs of your startup will var…

The Prize by Daniel Yergin is another great book that totally demolished all assumptions I'd had of what a "successful businessperson" looked like. It's a history of the oil industry, and I was riveted by how colorful and different the various major personalities were.
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