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Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

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Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#101

Post by abalashov »

isaaclyman wrote: post #60

This is a valuable discussion to me right now. At work I've been tasked with looking into a number of front end frameworks (Angular 4, React, Vue, Aurelia and Mithril) to see if we'd like to start writing new pages and components in one of those as opposed to AngularJS which we currently use. AngularJS has a few specific pain points for our web app, a complex and (unfortunately) ambitious SPA. I'm building a prototyp…

Re: the first point -- the counterpoint in my eyes would be that that hiring devs for any particular framework experience might be a losing battle, given the insane life cycles of front-end JS technology.

In web development more than anything else, the chances are higher that whatever keyword you hire for will be sidelined in 1-2 years. Even compared to other fast-moving tech niches, the web front-end arena is a batshit insane ADHD chipmunk in this regard. A DBA or a networking guy's current keywords are going to have at least five years of shelf life in some fashion. You can't count on those kinds of lifespans in the web world anyway. Yes, I also think that's ridiculous.

And so, "all-around competent JS developer experienced in a variety of frameworks and tools" might be the only viable hiring selector here.

Also, the barriers to entry to Vue are much lower. The simplicity is one of the main selling points. I'm not even a web developer by trade, but I picked up most of the essentials in a day or two. Admittedly, I did have a [kind of amateur] AngularJS background, which made that process much simpler, but I gather a React background equally predisposes one to rapid assimilation of Vue.

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#102

Post by fotcorn »

abalashov wrote: post #68
unclebucknasty wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny to read this--talk about the benefits of strong-typing, etc. The dynamic nature of JS was once a benefit. Granted, it wasn't initially purposed for full-out browser facing SPAs, etc. Still, strong-typing has been with us forever and, in general, I feel like we've solved this problem. I'd like to see a light-weight VM framework that supports Java code compiled down to JS, with an in-browser Swing-like component…

It's funny: I'm not even a web developer by trade, and perhaps precisely because of that fact, every other day at least I have a conversation with a colleague that goes something like, "Wouldn't it be great if there were Swing for browsers?" The idea of pre-styled and easily laid-out widgets holds a great deal of appeal. Vue and Bootstrap come close to giving me that, but not quite.

Checkout Element [0], in my opinion it comes very near to a "Swing for browsers". There is a version for Vue.js and React.

[0] http://element.eleme.io/#/en-US

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#103

Post by abalashov »

unclebucknasty wrote: post #100
abalashov wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me personally, the biggest selling point is not having to evolve the skill set of design and layout. I'm a developer, not a designer, and the ROI on me learning the fine points of CSS is very low. I already know the bottom 80% of CSS, but who doesn't? It's the top 20% where the "magic" happens, as with so many things. Pre-styled, if unremarkable componentry is what I need to deliver business outcomes. Bootstrap i…

Yeah, that's true. Devs spend too much time pixel-wrangling in the minutae of CSS. But, for me, it's not just the styling, but the architecture and componentry for modeling out async, event-driven web apps in a more natural way. And, I think that's the piece you're referencing that Swing can add to Bootstrap-alone.

I would agree that the deep inheritance hierarchies in verbose OO environments like Java actually do make sense for UI work. I think that's the one area in which they actually do make sense. Otherwise, it's all mostly a fantastical contrivance that leads to far too much boilerplate.

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#104

Post by abalashov »

barrkel wrote: post #45
nickthemagicman wrote: post #6

The only advantage React has is a huge backer..Facebook. So large companies are more open to using it because it's less risk and has higher chance of being around in 5 years than a framework without a huge backer. That's my theory on how 'biz' people make I.T. decisions.

Another aspect is lower ramp up time for hiring new developers, and easier convincing developers to come on board where they'll learn / use a growing technology rather than some oddball niche thing. They're solid, non-arbitrary reasons. Given a choice between the most common tech on the market and a niche offering, you need to have a good reason to choose the niche offering, because it comes with real downsides to a…

Yeah, but the simplicity of Vue is one of the main selling points.

I'm not a web developer at all by trade, but it took me only 1-2 days to pick up the essentials of Vue. That's not because I'm brilliant, it's because the barriers to entry really are that low. It's simple. They've nailed that part well, and it's a very seductive differentiator in a JS front-end world that just keeps getting more and more Byzantine.

Admittedly, I did have some Angular 1.x background, but it was really just dabbling in the grand scheme of things. And I gather that a React background is equally advantageous in picking up Vue.

More generally, given the insane ADHD pace at which front-end web technology moves, I'm not sure hiring developers for any particular framework experience is viable. People sometimes say that about tech hiring in general, and I don't necessarily agree, but web front-end work is really the one area where I think it holds true and you just have to hire competent JS developers experienced with a variety of tools and frameworks in general. There's just no telling how different the landscape will be in 1-2 years.

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#105

Post by lightblade »

wishinghand wrote: post #44
lightblade wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also why taking on Vue is a huge risk. The project has a high bus factor. If the main author burnt out and quit, the project is dead.

It definitely is not because not only are there other contributors but Alibaba and Monterail have also made meaningful contributions (the former also developing an analog to React-Native but with Vue).

Meaningful contribution in what way? This is Vue's contribution graph sorted by addition: https://github.com/vuejs/vue/graphs/contributors?from=2016-0...

The #2 person contributes only about 1% compared to the #1 person.

Compare to React's same graph: https://github.com/facebook/react/graphs/contributors?from=2...

The #2 person is at about 50% of the #1 person.

Compare to Ember's same graph: https://github.com/emberjs/ember.js/graphs/contributors?from...

The #2 person is at 75% of the #1 person.

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#106

Post by lightblade »

coldtea wrote: post #53
lightblade wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also why taking on Vue is a huge risk. The project has a high bus factor. If the main author burnt out and quit, the project is dead.

Vue is used by huge Chinese companies, and tons of Chinese startups. It's also adopted by Laravel, which is very popular in PHP land. It's not going anywhere soon.

That is the word on the street, but I have yet to see publicly visible evidence of it. You can inspect Facebook to see React is there. You can inspect Walmart to see React is there. You can inspect LinkedIn to find Ember there. I have yet to see flagship product of huge companies built on Angular or Vue. Is Alibaba.com built with Vue?

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#108

Post by emn13 »

sgustard wrote: post #64
emn13 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's definitely not wrong. Vue.js supports and promotes templates (e.g. right on the very "get started" page the homepage links to: https://vuejs.org/v2/guide/#Conditionals-and-Loops ) with yet another NIH looping and conditional syntax. Perhaps it's possible to avoid - but that kind of flexibility simply encourages messy codebases.

JSX is not a requirement for React. React has the same kind of flexibility you are criticizing. https://facebook.github.io/react/docs/react-without-jsx.html

That's not at all the same, for (at least) 2 reasons.

- Defaults matter; templates as defaults means most examples, support, tools, extensions, etc. will assume templating.

- React without JSX doesn't actually affect the code structure or flow. Looping, conditionals, composition etc. all stay the same; and that shouldn't be surprising since JSX is essentially no more than a slightly different syntax for nested method calls and object literals; which is quite unlike templates in vue; those have actual semantics too.

I've used react without jsx before (some time ago for a coffeescript based project), and it affects little. If you do that, you'll want to introduce some alternative shorthand to avoid all those repetitive "React.createElement" calls, but doing so is trivial - after all, it's just method calls and object literals.

I'm not a huge fan of custom languages like JSX in general, and indeed JSX too (I believe) was a mistake. However, with sufficient support and a small enough target to support, it's less of an issue. Still, even extremely well funded projects like razor are clearly much less well supported by tooling than the language they're based on, even many years later. Vue's templates? Completely hopeless.

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#109

Post by mythz »

azr79 wrote: post #22

I went Angular, because I can get a well paid job very easily, it's a very fun Framework to work with, TypeScript is awesome, it's complete, fast and powerful, is backed by Google and has a huge community. Vue might be fun to work with, but it doesn't have all the advantages of Angular (or React) I listed above.

We ship Vue.js + TypeScript + Webpack templates: http://docs.servicestack.net/templates-single-page-apps

Vue.js also has the nice advantage of being able to use HTML, TypeScript and SASS within the same .vue component:

https://github.com/ServiceStack/Templates/blob/master/src/Si...

Re: Will Vue.js become a giant like Angular or React?

#110

Post by doublerebel »

petilon wrote: post #11

Vue.js is a step backwards, relative to React, in my opinion. What I love about React is JSX (or TSX if using TypeScript). JSX is a combination of JavaScript and HTML syntaxes. You don't need to learn a new syntax in order to incorporate loops and conditionals in the view layer, thanks to JSX: you just use JavaScript. More importantly, you get compile-time verification. If you use a JavaScript variable in JSX and som…

Jade/Pug templates (been around for years, and are the ExpressJS default) also offer the same feature of being just "a combination of JavaScript and HTML elements". I haven't been convinced yet that JSX is better, because I can do all the same things in Pug (client or server-side rendering, compile to Hyperscript, compile to Javascript) yet with cleaner syntax.
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