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Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#101

Post by wayn3 »

ido wrote: post #99
wayn3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the goal of terrorism is awareness that there are evil assholes out there. they want to get caught. the casualties are a means to an end. if you just kill a bunch of people without anyone noticing it, nothings been gained in terms of effective terrorizing. terrorists want to be freddy krueger, not the rollercoaster from final destination.

How is it any different from suicide bombing tho? The terrorist organizations can still take credit for the bus-on-highway-terror just like they take credit posthumously for the suicide bombings.

They could already do that for random accidents not actually caused by them. Why don't they?

Why not try to claim they made the malaysian air flight disappear?

I'm not sure, but it doesnt seem to be on their agenda.

Terrorist code of conduct. "Thou shall not claim casualties you didn't cause."

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#102

Post by DanBC »

pluma wrote: post #76
DanBC wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> sure, but c'mon they wouldn't actually store any of it or even pay attention as long as you didn't use trigger words How did you think they were listening for the trigger words?

First of all, you stated the same thing twice in separate comments. Secondly, I wasn't making an argument, I was describing how people at the time would think about claims like "the NSA records every conversation". There are flaws in the argument (well, duh) but that's not even the point. The full extent of NSA surveillance was so absurdly unthinkable that people would go out of their way to rationalize anything as l…

> you stated the same thing twice in separate comments.

Weirdly when I posted the comment that you replied to HN said "please try again", which made me think the comment hadn't posted. Thus the re-wording.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#105

Post by saiya-jin »

fao_ wrote: post #91
coldtea wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, after several wars, a couple of occupations, and tons of drone killings, and several trillions spent, all the stronger country in the world has managed was to "reduce the life expectancy" of major leaders in an third world backwater organisation? And help foster another similar enemy (ISIS) in the process? Hurray for effectiveness...

Not to mention approximately 2 million civilians dead in the last 20 years.

And due to their structure killing somebody higher up the ranks has exactly 0 long term effect on their operations, and one bad guy is replaced by another ambitious, battle-hardened bad guy.

In this situation we all as mankind lose in one way or another, the only beneficiaries are US army contractors/suppliers. If YOU work for any of those, shame on YOU, I don't care about your excuses.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#106

Post by pjc50 »

pjc50 wrote: post #74
angusmacphail wrote: post #20

And doesn't it fit neatly that we're force-fed the narrative of Islamic extremism as public enemy number one... Poor religious radicals are the only foe our intelligence services are likely to outwit

There was a suggestion going around that some of the recent London attackers had at one time been recruited by MI5 to fight in Libya. My google-fu is failing to find me the alleged details, though.

https://twitter.com/markcurtis30/status/872365671434379265

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#107

Post by TeMPOraL »

wayn3 wrote: post #101
ido wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it any different from suicide bombing tho? The terrorist organizations can still take credit for the bus-on-highway-terror just like they take credit posthumously for the suicide bombings.

They could already do that for random accidents not actually caused by them. Why don't they? Why not try to claim they made the malaysian air flight disappear? I'm not sure, but it doesnt seem to be on their agenda. Terrorist code of conduct. "Thou shall not claim casualties you didn't cause."

> Terrorist code of conduct. "Thou shall not claim casualties you didn't cause."

That's because if you are ever disproved, you lose credibility for future claims.

That's orthogonal to the merit of using such "mundane-looking" tactics and then rightfully claiming involvement.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#108

Post by wayn3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #107
wayn3 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could already do that for random accidents not actually caused by them. Why don't they? Why not try to claim they made the malaysian air flight disappear? I'm not sure, but it doesnt seem to be on their agenda. Terrorist code of conduct. "Thou shall not claim casualties you didn't cause."

> Terrorist code of conduct. "Thou shall not claim casualties you didn't cause." That's because if you are ever disproved, you lose credibility for future claims. That's orthogonal to the merit of using such "mundane-looking" tactics and then rightfully claiming involvement.

youd think that its incredibly easy for a terrorist to regain lost credibility.

duh?

remember what happened last time nobody took them seriously? a generation of conspiracy nutters was born.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#109

Post by TeMPOraL »

wayn3 wrote: post #108
TeMPOraL wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Terrorist code of conduct. "Thou shall not claim casualties you didn't cause." That's because if you are ever disproved, you lose credibility for future claims. That's orthogonal to the merit of using such "mundane-looking" tactics and then rightfully claiming involvement.

youd think that its incredibly easy for a terrorist to regain lost credibility. duh? remember what happened last time nobody took them seriously? a generation of conspiracy nutters was born.

Nobody taking them seriously is the only way to stop them. Compare with people starting to take them seriously, which brought us at least three country-destroying wars, trillions of dollars of waste, and the erosion of citizen rights in the whole western world - all within last two decades.
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