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LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

caltech.edu

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Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#101

Great veritasium video about this latest wave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVKO7UCIlgs What is involved with increasing sensitivity I wonder? Is it purely lengthening the arms? or are there other advancements required? Hopefully one day we can have these things in space, isolated from noise and curvature of the earth and no need for vacuum equipment.

There are loads of possible ways to increase sensitivity, but none of them are easy or cheap given that the low hanging fruit was all picked off in previous generation detectors.

Increasing arm length is the "easiest" but definitely the most expensive option. Try finding a 40km L-shaped area that's seismically stable and free from significant anthropogenic activity. There may only be a handful of places in North America. However, 4km is already on the cusp of being long enough that gravity misaligns the two mirrors are each end of each arm due to the curvature of the Earth. Going to 40km would prompt the need for static corrections to mirror alignment, which will increase the amount of seismic noise that couples into the longitudinal direction in which gravitational waves are sensed. There are other problems such as the need to either refocus light at points along the arms (very susceptible to alignment and thermal noise) or use much, much bigger mirrors. The Advanced LIGO mirrors are already ~40kg, ~30 x 15cm cylinders of the purest fused silica known to man circa ~2012. There is talk of increasing the mirrors to 200kg and ~50 x 25 cm, and no facility is currently capable of producing pure enough fused silica at that size.

An "easier" option is to increase the laser power. This gives diminishing returns, and leads to an increase in high frequency sensitivity at the expense of low frequency sensitivity (due to photon pressure pushing the mirrors around noisily). However, the challenges are to make stable lasers that are also powerful - very tricky - and to mitigate the effect that laser absorption has on the mirrors within the interferometer - as you increase laser power, things heat up. Hot mirrors can lens the light, misaligning it and creating extra loss (i.e. reducing sensitivity). It's trickly to mitigate. Another effect of higher laser power is the introduction of parametric instabilities, where the mechanical body modes of the mirrors are amplified by the high laser power, leading to huge spikes of noise at narrow frequencies which are difficult to damp out.

Another is to use a different interferometer topology: instead of an L-shaped Michelson interferometer, suggestions have been made for Sagnac interferometers which possess an interesting property called quantum non-demolition, which can potentially reduce the limiting noise source in Advanced LIGO which directly increases sensitivity. Research into this is at a very early stage and will not be seen in detector facilities for decades, if ever.

So, the short answer is: there are lots of potential methods to increase sensitivity, but all of them are challenging and require significant R&D and money.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#102
post #10

> These are collisions that produce more power than is radiated as light by all the stars and galaxies in the universe at any given time. Astounding, especially given that these are happening at regular intervals in our "neighborhood".

I don't really understand this, especially "at any given time" part. Could someone elaborate?

The power (energy per unit time) emitted in the creation of gravitational waves by the source observed by LIGO was briefly greater than the light power emitted by all of the stars in the known universe. Basically, if the gravitational waves were in fact light (they're not), then they would have briefly outshone everything else in the universe put together.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#103
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complete guess, as I don't have any firsthand knowledge ... but I can only imagine that they have a whole array of seismographs on the premises, which they can use to clear noise from the main LIGO readings they are interested in. Curious to know if this is the case from anyone who happens to know one way or the other :) edit: the more I think about it, the more I think that random vibrations from passing t…

Actually, I think it's measuring the intensity of light between two points. It has two perpendicular lasers of some wavelength which then interfere with one another. If they interfere perfectly you measure a zero, if the interference is off by some amount you measure a deviation in intensity from the i^ or the j^ direction. You can eliminate passing trucks, earth tremors, mining, asteroid impacts etc simply by applyi…

No filtering is applied to data containing such anthropogenic/geological noise after it is measured to remove such effects. In fact, such data is usually junked and not used for analysis. The sites have thousands of witness channels which listen for things like trucks, ground motion, magnetic storms, etc. that could possibly influence the mirrors in the way a gravitational wave would. If the same signal appears in both the gravitational wave channel and some auxiliary sensor, it's thrown away.

Instead, the mirrors are highly isolated from the ground (suspended from pendulums, motion damped by actuators, that sort of thing) so that such effects do not have significant impact on the motion of the mirrors.

In any case, seismic noise can't be fully isolated and creates a sensitivity wall below around 10Hz. To get sensitivity much below 10Hz, you have to go to space (look up LISA).

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#104
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks >"GW170104 was first identified by inspection of low-latency triggers from Livingston data [15–17]. An automated notification was not generated as the Hanford detector’s calibration state was temporarily set incorrectly in the low-latency system . After it was manually determined that the calibration of both detectors was in a nominal state, an alert with an initial source localization [18,19] was distributed…

There have been three signals witnessed in about 12 months of observations - of course the models need some tuning to correctly, automatically, trigger alerts. In any case, you are referring to the _online_ triggers which look very quickly at the data and try to guess if an apparent signal is real before informing electromagnetic observatories to follow up. The real analysis is conducted _offline_ in a much slower, c…

>"In terms of corroborating evidence, remember that the two independent LIGO detectors - 3000km apart - saw the event within 10ms of each other. That's enough corroborating evidence for a lot of people."

I don't see what the first part of the post has to do with the null ("background noise") model being inapplicable to situations where special human intervention comes into play. Do they include any events like that in the background timeseries or not? I am suspecting not (which renders the model false and hence false alarm rates/sigma values meaningless), but do not know for sure.

Second, that is just a detection. Corroboration occurs when your model predicts multiple types of observations related to a phenomena (measured by different types of instruments). This weakening of definitions is concerning to me if it has infected physics. I have seen that trick used a lot by "softer" fields such as medicine/psych (eg their definition of a replication is just seeing "an effect" in the same direction).

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#105
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks >"GW170104 was first identified by inspection of low-latency triggers from Livingston data [15–17]. An automated notification was not generated as the Hanford detector’s calibration state was temporarily set incorrectly in the low-latency system . After it was manually determined that the calibration of both detectors was in a nominal state, an alert with an initial source localization [18,19] was distributed…

There have been three signals witnessed in about 12 months of observations - of course the models need some tuning to correctly, automatically, trigger alerts. In any case, you are referring to the _online_ triggers which look very quickly at the data and try to guess if an apparent signal is real before informing electromagnetic observatories to follow up. The real analysis is conducted _offline_ in a much slower, c…

Also, I read somewhere that they had 6 additional signals they haven't reported yet (can't find it at the moment).

I guess we will see once the count gets into the dozens. If it happens without any kind of outside way to verify these signals are inspiraling black hole events it will definitely be interesting to see how the physics community deals with it.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#106
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since black holes are rotationally symmetric they cannot shed angular momentum via gravitational waves since the production of those requires some asymmetry[0]. But as a sibling post pointed out they can impart some of their angular momentum on objects within the ergosphere which then may escape and carry away the energy. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_wave#Sources

I was thinking of the two-black-hole system right before merging.

Before merging, yes, they do shed angular momentum before merging. In fact, if you calculated the angular momentum of two maximally spinning black holes, you'd realize that if you could combine them, it would larger than the maximal possible spin of a single black hole with the combined mass. They must and will radiate this away as gravitational waves before merging.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#107
post #49
post #6

The paper describing the event is available to the public at https://dcc.ligo.org/LIGO-P170104/public The instrument data of this event is also available to the public at https://losc.ligo.org/events/GW170104/

Thanks >"GW170104 was first identified by inspection of low-latency triggers from Livingston data [15–17]. An automated notification was not generated as the Hanford detector’s calibration state was temporarily set incorrectly in the low-latency system . After it was manually determined that the calibration of both detectors was in a nominal state, an alert with an initial source localization [18,19] was distributed…

Hi Nonbel, I work within the LIGO Scientific Collaboration, and as another posted commented, manual intervention (in the case of GW170104 by me) was only necessary for the online analysis. The purpose of online analysis is for fast coordination with EM partners so that potentially interesting opportunities are not missed. In the case of binary black holes, the expectation is that there will be no electromagnetic counterpart, as the region is expected to be cleared of matter well before we observed the black holes merging. If one to were to be found however, that would be exciting.

By design, detection statements and significance estimates come solely from the offline analysis which is conducted separately (i.e. not triggered by) the online analysis. No human intervention is required here, as the issue with the online status information was known about at the time and was not an issue with the data itself. Even if there were no candidate events at the time, it would be been included in the offline analysis of the period containing the event.

In regards to GW150914 and iDQ, you should know that iDQ has never been approved as a veto for CBC (compact binaries such as neutron stars and black holes) searches. Again, no intervention was required to "remove" the veto as it was never used in the offline analysis nor would be in the first place. It's only use that I am aware of is as a veto against Burst triggers in online analysis. These searches look for generic signals, but may also detect some of the louder CBC sources, such as GW150914. In case you were wondering, there weren't dedicated online CBC searches at the time of GW150914, but there were offline analysis, and those produced the results reported in the original detection paper.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#108

Anyone familiar with this branch of astronomy want to explain why one detection in a volume on the order of 27 billion cubic light years is reasonable? Are they still processing data and will find more events? Is the sensitivity highly anisotropic so the detection volume is significantly smaller? Or are events like this just really conveniently rare that we get about 1 every data gathering interval?

These waves are extremely small, and we've just managed to build instruments sensitive enough to detect the very biggest ones. Earth bound instruments will no doubt get better, but to get a real jump in quality, you need instruments in the stillness of space: http://www.einstein-online.info/spotlights/eLISA

It's important to know that LISA and LIGO aren't really competing for sensitivity. Rather they complement each other by looking in different frequency ranges. The relationship between LISA and LIGO is analogous to a radio telescope and a gamma ray one. They observe different parts of the spectrum. At the frequencies that black holes merge for example, ground motion is not much of an issue, and other noise source dominate.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#109
post #94

Does the calculation of how long ago this event occurred account for the speed at which the universe is expanding? Does it need to?

We do account for the expansion of the universe in fact. We estimated that this source was at about z ~ 0.2 (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshift). Roughly speaking this means there'll be only ~20% effect as the scale of the universe (a) has increased by (1+z) over the time it has traveled.

Re: LIGO Detects Gravitational Waves for Third Time

#110
post #107
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks >"GW170104 was first identified by inspection of low-latency triggers from Livingston data [15–17]. An automated notification was not generated as the Hanford detector’s calibration state was temporarily set incorrectly in the low-latency system . After it was manually determined that the calibration of both detectors was in a nominal state, an alert with an initial source localization [18,19] was distributed…

Hi Nonbel, I work within the LIGO Scientific Collaboration, and as another posted commented, manual intervention (in the case of GW170104 by me) was only necessary for the online analysis. The purpose of online analysis is for fast coordination with EM partners so that potentially interesting opportunities are not missed. In the case of binary black holes, the expectation is that there will be no electromagnetic coun…

Thanks,

This is information that should be included in the papers because the current description is too terse. Basically you are saying that the filters used for online analysis have nothing to do with the background model, zero influence on what periods get included, etc. I'm still unclear on what exactly needed to be "restarted by hand" for the original GW150914 signal, but ok.

>"In the case of binary black holes, the expectation is that there will be no electromagnetic counterpart, as the region is expected to be cleared of matter well before we observed the black holes merging."

Is there any other type of event that is expected to be accompanied by some kind of corroborating evidence?

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