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CEOs Want Their Offices Back

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Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#101

Post by deepGem »

varelse wrote: post #51
coffeeski wrote: post #8

Why do CEO's think they're alone in the need for quiet spaces where they can focus? Sure some people can work in the noisy space where interruptions abound. The only thing in my office that works well with interruptions is my CPU. I'd rather have a Cube farm, but better yet, a small tiny phone booth as an office.

Just like the cargo cult Agile pandemic peaked a few years ago, I suspect we're reaching peak open floor plans right now. The overall negative effects of an open floor plan for a significant fraction of engineers (though not all) is self-evident and backed up by reams of data stretching back nearly 40 years: http://iansommerville.com/software-engineering-book/web/work... TLDR: 100 square feet of personal space is opt…

I worked at Sun Microsystems for a while and their private office layout was really nice. I can't ballpark the exact size but the office could hold 3 gigantic CRT monitors, 2 desk phones, and had space for 2 visitors.

I feel that a 2 person private office is quite optimal, since we are talking about teams. It's easier to pair program or discuss and even maintain silence when required. Office designers will have to pay attention to acoustics and ensure that there is not much echoing or significant noise transmission across walls or glass panels.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#102

Post by gk1 »

coffeeski wrote: post #15
coffeeski wrote: post #8

Why do CEO's think they're alone in the need for quiet spaces where they can focus? Sure some people can work in the noisy space where interruptions abound. The only thing in my office that works well with interruptions is my CPU. I'd rather have a Cube farm, but better yet, a small tiny phone booth as an office.

I would take a 10% paycut to have a small office that fits 2 monitors, a filing cabinet and some pictures, rather then dealing with constant clattering of the guy behind me that decided converting a type writer into a digital keyboard was a good idea.

I used to work out of an open-floor co-working space. I just moved to a new space that's 2x the price, just because it comes with an enclosed office.

I'm so glad I did it. If I can get just a few more hours of productivity each month then the upgrade pays for itself.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#103

Post by jesseryoung »

valuearb wrote: post #76
jesseryoung wrote: post #50

It seems like when "Open Office" articles come out there seem to be quite a few people talking ill of them. I recently switched jobs and with it switched from an open concept (large room with whiteboards separating teams) to an office (shared with one other coworker.) Maybe I was conditioned to like it (I certainly didn't like it at first) but I really did prefer the open concept when working on a team of 8 or 9 peop…

What was your role on the team? Did your team-members enjoy you turning around and interrupting them? Is it really that hard to get up and walk to another office so you don't disturb 8 other people with a question they don't care about? Walking around occasionally in the day is actually good for us. And two person offices are a mild improvement over cubicles, which are a significant improvement over open offices. But…

I was a team lead/solutions architect.

> Did your team-members enjoy you turning around and interrupting them?

I don't think it's fair to call all conversations "interruptions" and my co-workers were all very conscious of causing any unwanted interruptions.

> Is it really that hard to get up and walk to another office so you don't disturb 8 other people with a question they don't care about?

It wasn't, and I often did walk around as I regularly needed to interact with other teams. 99% of people had headphones on through all parts of the day.

As a side note, this workplace was comprised of mostly men and women under the age of 35 with quite a few right out of college. We regularly got comments from the interns that we hired that they chose to work their because of the open environment. Age may play a factor here I suppose.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#104

Post by technofiend »

When I was at Shell we were in the Houston medical center (near it, really) so Shell built a hospital and jammed their people into it in case they ever needed to sell the building. The company didn't bother buying real desks: we used full sized party tables and two people sat in a space designed to be a private hospital room. It was so tight I had to get up and leave to let my office mate in or out. I'd still rather sit there over a dog bone or trader desk setup you find today.

As one of the old farts who started when even the lowliest peon had an office the fact CEOs are discovering forcing people to do their work in a large, loud, noisy space doesn't work isn't terribly surprising. Nor does the fact that 30+ years later almost everyone above a certain level still gets an office even in the cube farm environments. At Shell you could instantly tell the rank of a person by the size of their office. Fast forward to today and you must be an ED to rank an office where I work now. It's a status symbol.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#105

Post by maxxxxx »

drewolbrich wrote: post #94
maxxxxx wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently got one and I admit it's really loud. But this shouldn't be an issue in a decent workplace. I have several guys near me who have loud voices and talk a lot. That's worse than a loud keyboard. Open office plans are the problem, not keyboards or loud people.

I am distracted by your loud keyboard. Frequently, I find myself wishing that you had a quiet keyboard like everyone else in the office. I am particularly irritated by the noise of your keyboard each morning when you write long emails or posts. When you are coding and there are frequent long breaks when you are thinking, it is not quite as distracting, but I still don't like it. I agree with you that open office plan…

"I am particularly irritated by the noise of your keyboard each morning when you write long emails or posts."

My E-mails are pretty short :-). However, I don't enjoy you telling your coworkers about your weekend every Monday morning.

Open offices are just stupid. They cause conflict where there shouldn't be.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#106

Post by rb808 »

I've worked in open offices my whole career. To me its normal and I'm used to it, probably I dont want an office locked away.

I have found the next step down though where I work - hot desks. Basically you get a locker for your stuff, no reserved desk location and a virtual terminal to a desktop on a server. This really does suck.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#107

Post by nsxwolf »

Declanomous wrote: post #79
softawre wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. But, if you're in an open office, don't you think the decent thing to do is to not speak loudly (and therefore not use a loud mechanical keyboard)? There are mech keyboards with more quiet switches. At least use one of those.

Pretty much every mechanical keyboard will be loud. I use a board with Cherry Red switches at work, and while it's much quieter than my board with Cherry Blue switches that I use at home, it is still louder than the rubber dome keyboard it replaced. It doesn't bother my coworkers, but I also have an actual cube, so there's at least a little bit of fabric-covered foam inbetween us.

If someone is complaining about Cherry Reds, I think they're asking for too much. Perhaps they should look for work in the library sciences.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#108

Post by Danihan »

jdc0589 wrote: post #87
jesseryoung wrote: post #50

It seems like when "Open Office" articles come out there seem to be quite a few people talking ill of them. I recently switched jobs and with it switched from an open concept (large room with whiteboards separating teams) to an office (shared with one other coworker.) Maybe I was conditioned to like it (I certainly didn't like it at first) but I really did prefer the open concept when working on a team of 8 or 9 peop…

This is why I actually like cubicles. you are physically close to your team, if your space is organized well you are on a common isle with people you work with, but you still have at least a little bit of isolation in your personal workspace. I DO NOT understand why cubes get so much hate.

As someone with ADD (who immediately drops focus when someone walks by or when music has lyrics) cubicles are much better than most open office plans.

They just don't look as "cool" or "hip" as a long, open table.

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#109

Post by yawgmoth »

tlrobinson wrote: post #38
philip1209 wrote: post #24

Individual contributors want private offices. Companies want "openness and collaboration". As I've been at WeWorks lately, I've noticed that they have all glass walls on the offices. This means that everybody has natural light and a sense of openness, but with a locking door and quiet. A more general question to people in such all-glass private offices - is it the best of both worlds? Or, is more privacy needed than…

They make glass that can be turned opaque electronically. That's probably ideal (albeit more expensive) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass

They also make blinds :-)

Re: CEOs Want Their Offices Back

#110

Post by NTripleOne »

trcollinson wrote: post #59
coffeeski wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would take a 10% paycut to have a small office that fits 2 monitors, a filing cabinet and some pictures, rather then dealing with constant clattering of the guy behind me that decided converting a type writer into a digital keyboard was a good idea.

I understand your sentiment entirely. I have thought the same way. However, I have to ask, why would you, or I, or any other person creating substantial value for a company, ever in their right mind take a 10% pay cut (or any other level of pay cut or reduction) in order to be MORE efficient? Our attitude in this industry drives me crazy lately. And really it has been my own attitude for a long time. We ask to be mor…

I couldn't care less for efficiency, I'm going to get roughly the same amount of work done in a shitty office and in a good one, that's just how I am - but it would make me a helluva lot happier and allow me to actually enjoy doing the job I should enjoy.
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