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Swift is like Kotlin

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Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#101

Post by konart »

inopinatus wrote: post #87
kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

I looked it up, and Kotlin is an island ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotlin_Island ) 1,000km north of Ukraine. Is it a case like Alcatraz, where the location has become idiomatically synonymous with the facilities?

Kotlin is a place where https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kronstadt was founded. You can say that Kronstadt become idiomatically synonymous with the facilities. Not too sure about the Alcatraz, but Kronstadt is the pride of Russia (and I doubt many people would be happy to see it being compared to a prison-island, lol)

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#102

Post by coldtea »

NathanFlurry wrote: post #62

One has structures, ARC, proper extensions, good protocols/interfaces, flexible enums, and runs natively. The other one doesn't. I think I'll choose the former.

One has a top-notch IDE from a top-notch IDE vendor. The other has XCode.

Also, ARC aside, for the 3-4 items you mentioned, either Kotlin also also has them, or has just as good alternatives. And none of those are life-changing. ARC vs a good GC is just a different tradeoff (no cycle detection vs pauses, etc).

I'm sure you can find some things where Swift is better at, and others where Kotlin is. But not that many to proclare one or the other the definite winner, and surely not a major one.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#103

Post by doubt_it_throw »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

I think the effect on adoption will actually be small. Most Ukrainian developers won't realize or won't care the island the language is named after houses a military base. Going by my experience, they will also have few qualms about using a language controlled by a Russian company. (Note I am not judging them positively or negatively, just predicting their behavior.)

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#104

Post by coldtea »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

>Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base.

Well, except if you are an Ukrainian of Russian descent and root for the (ex)home team...

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#105

Post by quonn »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

Nobody cares about the politics of Indonesia when dealing with Java programmers either.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#106

Post by d1ffuz0r »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

I think opposite, because it's been created in Russia it's going to be very popular in Ukraine

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#107

Post by coldtea »

cgb223 wrote: post #95
kozak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, the name "Kiev" would be no less offensive becuase this spelling of the name implies that this is a Russian city, not a Ukrainian one. The official and correct spelling is "Kyiv", see http://kyiv.of-cour.se/ for explanations why.

Ironically, the name "Kyiv" would also be no less offensive since it is written in Latin characters non native to Ukraine instead of the Ukrainian alphabet, which is a derivative of the Cyrillic alphabet. The official and correct spelling is "Київ"

>Ironically, the name "Kyiv" would also be no less offensive since it is written in Latin characters non native to Ukraine instead of the Ukrainian alphabet, which is a derivative of the Cyrillic alphabet.

Pedantically it would be much less, even none at all, offensive, since nobody will care whether a programming language's name is not written in Cyrillic, since the latin alphabet is the default for such names anyway.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#108

Post by Grustaf »

manmal wrote: post #54
Watabou wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swift has both external and internal parameter names for functions. This is to make API design more readable, easier to parse through. For example, you can have a function like so: func greet(with greeting: String, to personName: String) { print("\(greeting), \(personName)!") } In the above code, "with" and "to" are external names, and are only available when calling the function but are not available inside the func…

I think it likely that labeled arguments were introduced mainly for Objective-C interoperability.

Rather because it fits the Cocoa philosophy, that both Swift and ObjC subscribe to.

I think argument labels are great, makes the code much more readable.

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#109

Post by konart »

kozak wrote: post #71

Here in Ukraine it would be very hard to get adoption of a programming language that is named after a Russian military base. This is the rare case where bad naming choice really hurts. No matter how good is the language, you will have to hear and pronounce that name many times a day, and even associate yourself with it (e.g. "a Kotlin developer" in your resume). Not something to be taken lightly.

Yet both Ukrainians and Russians love Rammstein, right?

Re: Swift is like Kotlin

#110

Post by seltzered_ »

Two Kickstarter mobile engineers (Brandon Williams & Lisa Luo) just gave a talk on this at uikonf two days ago, where they walked through the similarities and small differences. Talk should be online soon.

The kickstarter apps are open source so you can compare it yourself.

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