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Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

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Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#101

Post by phpnode »

vgt wrote: post #91
saurik wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...mostly by Readergate... Oh, come on... seriously? This argument is trotted out every single time Google shuts down something: "you are still upset about Google Reader". No: we are upset about all of those other things that get shut down, and people from Google shifting blame to Reader over and over and over again is nonsensical at this point: there are so many many examples of things being shut down, and Reader…

I appreciate your passion. My argument isn't that Google doesn't shut down B2B services. It's that I have seen no evidence that Google does it at a vastly outlying rate relative to the industry. IANAL, but Both AWS [0] and Azure [1] have 12-month deprecation policies - this is industry standard, as mentioned in the Google Developers blog you link. [0] https://aws.amazon.com/agreement/ [1] https://azure.microsoft.com/…

This is one of those occasions where evidence and material facts are irrelevant, what actually matters is how people feel about using Google products. Is the average developer going to feel confident about recommending a Google service to their manager?

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#102

Post by jfoster »

vgt wrote: post #91
saurik wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...mostly by Readergate... Oh, come on... seriously? This argument is trotted out every single time Google shuts down something: "you are still upset about Google Reader". No: we are upset about all of those other things that get shut down, and people from Google shifting blame to Reader over and over and over again is nonsensical at this point: there are so many many examples of things being shut down, and Reader…

I appreciate your passion. My argument isn't that Google doesn't shut down B2B services. It's that I have seen no evidence that Google does it at a vastly outlying rate relative to the industry. IANAL, but Both AWS [0] and Azure [1] have 12-month deprecation policies - this is industry standard, as mentioned in the Google Developers blog you link. [0] https://aws.amazon.com/agreement/ [1] https://azure.microsoft.com/…

What is the shutdown rate of AWS & Azure that you've calculated, and what is Google Cloud's? If no one actually has these numbers, let's assume the perception didn't come from nowhere.

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#103

Post by rubber_duck »

tuna-piano wrote: post #34
soccerdave wrote: post #4

One thing that I find so amazing about AWS (Amazon Web Services) is that I'm not aware of them ever EOLing one of their apis (I could be wrong). We still have a bunch of code that still uses SimpleDB and even though they haven't promoted SDB for a while, they haven't EOLed it.

Exactly this. Companies are still running on-prem software from decades ago, because it's not economical to migrate. Why should the cloud be different? It's very scary to a purchasing manager at a company to know that when they invest $100k+ in developer/consultant time implementing a solution, that every 3-5 years they will need to spend an additional $xk to simply keep the solution alive! AWS is doing this right. I…

>Why should the cloud be different?

Because you're not running the stack. Relying on any PASS that you can't lock down to a version and deploy on commodity infrastructure means you've accepted the reality of being vulnerable to platform changes - and in a lot of cases this makes sense because the benefits outweigh the cost of staying up to date - but scenarios you describe are not one of them.

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#104

Post by joshuamorton »

compumike wrote: post #98
jdc0589 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1 year deprecation is insanely short for public-facing infrastructure APIs. We should be talking about 10 years. Thats a little extreme.

5 years ago was 2012. Do you have code written in 2012 still in production? Almost certainly. 10 years ago was 2007. So you have code written in 2007 still in production? Less likely, but I bet there are enough "yes" answers out there.

There's a difference between code written and tools you used. Just to compare, 2007 was the time of python 2.5, Java 6 and Windows Vista.

I would certainly hope people have upgraded to newer tools than those.

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#105

Post by nix0n »

vgt wrote: post #77
tuna-piano wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does Google Cloud spend on marketing and sales of its services, how much business do they lose from companies who believe that Google could shut down their services in a few years? How much would they have spent on maintaining this service? I can tell you, from my experience at mid-market size non-tech clients looking to move to the cloud, that Google's reputation for shutting down services is known and is a…

Let me respectfully rephrase your argument. Despite parent's logical argument and evidence, and despite further evidence that Google doesn't really shut down Enterprise services at industry-irregular rates, market narrative has been defined (mostly by Readergate), and you are more inclined to accept said narrative? Alternatively, is there sufficient evidence beyond "market narrative" and Readergate that has allowed y…

> evidence that Google doesn't really shut down Enterprise services at industry-irregular rates

I have not seen any actual numerical evidence on this (either for or against google).

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#106

Post by cryptarch »

joshuamorton wrote: post #104
compumike wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 years ago was 2012. Do you have code written in 2012 still in production? Almost certainly. 10 years ago was 2007. So you have code written in 2007 still in production? Less likely, but I bet there are enough "yes" answers out there.

There's a difference between code written and tools you used. Just to compare, 2007 was the time of python 2.5, Java 6 and Windows Vista. I would certainly hope people have upgraded to newer tools than those.

And 2017 is the time of Windows XP and WannaCry.

What I'm saying is, those things are all still running in prod. I got an employer off Java 6 just two weeks ago. The next step is all the Java packages that were deprecated 5 years ago.

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#107

Post by cryptarch »

compumike wrote: post #99
macspoofing wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, that's the reality of software development and should already be priced in. WannaCry was so painful because WinXP and Server 2003 were still in operation, and I bet that was because there were applications that just couldn't be migrated away.

Sure. But are you going to choose API provider "A" with a history of keeping stable APIs working 10+ years, or API provider "B" which can and does change stuff every year? What's your expected maintenance cost over the lifetime of the service?

I guess it could still make sense for tech-heavy, "we rewrite 50% of our code every month"-companies, like... Google?

Maybe they're mostly running their cloud to iron out the kinks im the API's they use themselves?

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#108

Post by macspoofing »

compumike wrote: post #99
macspoofing wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, that's the reality of software development and should already be priced in. WannaCry was so painful because WinXP and Server 2003 were still in operation, and I bet that was because there were applications that just couldn't be migrated away.

Sure. But are you going to choose API provider "A" with a history of keeping stable APIs working 10+ years, or API provider "B" which can and does change stuff every year? What's your expected maintenance cost over the lifetime of the service?

Fair point.

On the other hand, Google is notorious for EOLing services that don't have a billion users, even compared to other cloud/web companies. That should be priced in.

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#109

Post by joshuamorton »

cryptarch wrote: post #106
joshuamorton wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between code written and tools you used. Just to compare, 2007 was the time of python 2.5, Java 6 and Windows Vista. I would certainly hope people have upgraded to newer tools than those.

And 2017 is the time of Windows XP and WannaCry. What I'm saying is, those things are all still running in prod. I got an employer off Java 6 just two weeks ago. The next step is all the Java packages that were deprecated 5 years ago.

Right, and Windows XP was deprecated 3 years ago after a 12 year lifespan. That people are still using XP is, honestly, inexcusable. If you want a 10 year deprecation policy for something someone else is maintaining, you should be prepared to pay for the salaries of the engineers who will maintain it for the 5 years after everyone else has moved off the system, or just build your own api ;)

Re: Google Cloud Prediction API End of Life

#110

Post by tuna-piano »

vgt wrote: post #77
tuna-piano wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much does Google Cloud spend on marketing and sales of its services, how much business do they lose from companies who believe that Google could shut down their services in a few years? How much would they have spent on maintaining this service? I can tell you, from my experience at mid-market size non-tech clients looking to move to the cloud, that Google's reputation for shutting down services is known and is a…

Let me respectfully rephrase your argument. Despite parent's logical argument and evidence, and despite further evidence that Google doesn't really shut down Enterprise services at industry-irregular rates, market narrative has been defined (mostly by Readergate), and you are more inclined to accept said narrative? Alternatively, is there sufficient evidence beyond "market narrative" and Readergate that has allowed y…

I can't find even a single example of AWS shutting down a service.

In fact, one example, showing a potentially different philosophy across companies is AWS SimpleDB. SimpleDB is no longer on the AWS console - DynamoDB has replaced it, as AWS believes DynamoDB is a superior service.

That said, SimpleDB still functions perfectly fine. In fact, I recently spoke to an AWS manager who stated that they will leave SimpleDB out there as long as people keep using it.

Just one metric: How many services has Google Cloud shut down and how many has AWS shut down? Off the top of my head, I know of two Google Cloud services, and after Googling (Thanks!) I can't find a single AWS example.

The fact remains: If Google knows that this reputation is in the populace but still doesn't believe it's worth it to fight that with more than 12 months notice with (what appears) a small investment - is the reputation undeserved? If larger Google Cloud services start losing money, why should customers count on Google to keep those services up?

AWS comes out with new services all the time, and even if they are smaller / niche, I feel comfortable recommending them to my clients. For example Data Pipeline never really seemed that popular, and AWS has recently come out with a better product, AWS Glue, which the former Data Pipeline team has transitioned to.

Will AWS force customers to switch to the new, better AWS Glue? No, they will leave Data Pipeline, and their customers' investments alone.

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