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The End of Men

theatlantic.com

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Re: The End of Men

#101

Post by willchang »

hugh3 wrote: post #9

For a fun exercise, try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" throughout this article, and speculate on whether The Atlantic would have published it. "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to white people?" "White people live longer than black people. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything black peo…

The Atlantic would not publish such a thing in 2010 because there has been no obvious inflection point in racial trends.

Perhaps I miss your point. Do you mind making it explicitly?

Re: The End of Men

#103

Post by gambling8nt »

FlorinAndrei wrote: post #16

Well, the modern society is less like the savanna, which was the environment that shaped men throughout the evolutionary history of our species, and more like the cave, which was the environment that shaped women. Less physical confrontation, more squabbling. Less concrete, immediate dangers, more abstract worries. Less ass-kicking, more cooperation. Heck, even spatial abilities are so last-century, now that everyone…

Half a century--two human generations--is not nearly enough time for evolutionary pressures to have the sort of effect you are talking about. Least of all in a society of abundance in which the majority of members reproduce.

Instead, I'd suggest you look at the various changing environmental factors for an explanation of these phenomena: BPA in plastics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bisphenol_A), the growing use of soy in human diets (with its attendant phyto-estrogens), and the growing quantities of synthetic human estrogen in the environment (already known to have effects on fish, see for instance http://www.seattlepi.com/local/124939_estrogen04.html).

Re: The End of Men

#104

Post by hugh3 »

mynameishere wrote: post #100
hugh3 wrote: post #9

For a fun exercise, try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" throughout this article, and speculate on whether The Atlantic would have published it. "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to white people?" "White people live longer than black people. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything black peo…

try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" Well, try replacing "women" with "black people" and "men" with "white people" and they would most certainly publish it. In fact, any time the slightest improvement in the fortune of any allegedly-mistreated group occurs (women, blacks, whatever) it is trumpeted and paraded endlessly. Anyway, the article didn't point out two salient facts: 1. Wome…

Parents prefer girls over boys for the same reason they used to do the opposite: Because that is the gender more likely to take care of them in their old age. No one wants girls because of "empowerment" or whatever PC bullshit journalists happen to be obsessed with.

I'm not sure to what extent people think that far ahead. If there's an expressed preference for girls over boys it's because:

a) Girls are often easier to deal with as parents than boys are (I'm thinking in the 7-10 age range and then again in the 14-17...)

b) Mothers prefer daughters while fathers prefer sons, but fathers tend to keep their mouths shut about it.

Re: The End of Men

#105

Post by willchang »

lukev wrote: post #34

Who gives a crap? Even if there are measurable statistical differences in competence at various activities between the sexes (which is far from proven), the average variation between two individuals is far, far more than the average variation between the sexes at large. In other words, treat people like the individuals and stop ANY form of discrimination based on irrelevant categories, sex-based or otherwise. Also, t…

> Who gives a crap?

I would agree if 'male' and 'female' were arbitrary labels. But they're not. Gender is far less arbitrary than, say, race. It is reasonable to suppose that even a small shift in power between the sexes might affect how they interact, and by extension, society (and not necessarily for the worse, of course). In other HN articles it has been claimed that big changes happen when the sex ratio is put out of balance by even small amounts.

> In other words, treat people like the individuals and stop ANY form of discrimination based on irrelevant categories, sex-based or otherwise.

This is beside the point. As a demographic, men are becoming less privileged without there being overt discrimination against them. This is newsworthy.

Re: The End of Men

#106

Post by fleitz »

mynameishere wrote: post #100
hugh3 wrote: post #9

For a fun exercise, try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" throughout this article, and speculate on whether The Atlantic would have published it. "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to white people?" "White people live longer than black people. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything black peo…

try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" Well, try replacing "women" with "black people" and "men" with "white people" and they would most certainly publish it. In fact, any time the slightest improvement in the fortune of any allegedly-mistreated group occurs (women, blacks, whatever) it is trumpeted and paraded endlessly. Anyway, the article didn't point out two salient facts: 1. Wome…

Once the gov't collapses under its own weight people will start singing a different tune.

"The only problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money"

Re: The End of Men

#107

Post by moron4hire »

Alex3917 wrote: post #19
hugh3 wrote: post #9

For a fun exercise, try replacing "men" with "black people" and "women" with "white people" throughout this article, and speculate on whether The Atlantic would have published it. "What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to white people?" "White people live longer than black people. They do better in this economy. More of ’em graduate from college. They go into space and do everything black peo…

From the New York Times: "Their [research] also suggests that the disadvantages that poverty imposes on children aren’t primarily about material goods. True, every poor child would benefit from having more books in his home and more nutritious food to eat (and money certainly makes it easier to carry out a program of concerted cultivation). But the real advantages that middle-class children gain come from more elusiv…

No, I think they just mean poor. It absolutely applies to the poor community in my home town, which is (to put it succinctly) very "redneck".

Re: The End of Men

#108

Post by jtheory »

rubashov wrote: post #72
cia_plant wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"heritable" does not mean "determined by genetics" FYI.

Wording revised. Identical twin studies show it is determined by genetics.

Identical twin studies where the twins were implanted into different women's uteruses? Because if not, you aren't proving "determined by genetics"; you're possibly just showing effects of good/bad prenatal care.

So I guess I'm curious about your sources... you can find poorly-designed studies badly interpreted by news media to prove just about anything.

Re: The End of Men

#109

Post by Groxx »

axle wrote: post #10
Groxx wrote: post #5

What if modern, postindustrial society is simply better suited to women? What if modern, postindustrial society is simply hostile to males in return for all the past hostility to females? edit: apparently axle replied while I had my lament on the state of scholarships. Summarized: out of literally thousands available after pre-filtered (however poorly), I had to toss out all but a dozen or two because I'm white and m…

The problem is really that you likely have not been anything else apart from a male WASP. See, there is no institution working against you. These things you are complaining about not getting are not the main product, they are shortcuts. A scholarship is not the normal way of studying, it's a shortcut way, for people who have something working against them. A woman (and a black guy) have institutions against them. The…

Here's an institution against WASPs, based on your very argument:

If you're a male-WASP, you don't need X because you are clearly capable of getting it via another method. So pick someone you can (supposedly) help more: the people with "institutions against them".

I've encountered this EXACT behavior in employers and have been skipped over for jobs several times. When I asked if there was a reason they picked someone significantly less qualified (they said I was the best qualified), they stated explicitly that I should be able to get a better job somewhere else, so they picked someone they felt needed the job more, and would be capable enough.

But if that's the case, why in God's name was I applying there in the first place?

Re: The End of Men

#110

Post by Groxx »

gaius wrote: post #83
sliverstorm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you phrase it? I know it's not a conspiracy, and I know there's no orchestrating hand. I was phrasing it the same way as the 'Invisible Hand' theory of economics. There sure as hell is no Invisible Hand, but we call it that because that's what it sometimes looks like.

Of course there is an orchestrating hand. This is what teachers are taught to teach in teaching colleges. This is why men who want to become teachers (here in the UK at least) are forced through the humiliating process of proving that they are not paedophiles. Perhaps the political theorists behind it haven't thought it through, but emasculating men is policy.

You get extremely similar viewpoints for any single fathers, especially if they have a / more than one girl.

There's next to zero support for single fathers in any area, including monetary support, job support, emotional support, family support, you name it, it's not there. In many cases I've quite literally heard people & support-providers say that most single fathers drove their mother away and are raping their kids, some even saying that all single fathers should put their kids into foster care because "men can't raise kids" or "kids need a mom".

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