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Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

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Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#101

Post by mikestew »

mistermann wrote: post #96
mikestew wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work. Because those millions of users use the box to play games, like I do. Oh, I've tried all the other stuff, and as you point out it's generally such a steaming pile of shit that I feel foolish for having even tried. (If the Kinect weren't in a box in the garage, I'd be staring in its direction right now.) Frankly, I'd be…

> Frankly, I'd be happy if they could just bring the Xbone back to the level of usability that the 360 had. I only own a 360 and was reading the parent comment in context of that and nodding my head vigorously, you mean the UI on the xbone is even worse ? Microsoft is such a schizophrenic company.

I'll give you an example: party chat. Works just great on the 360, right? Send a friend and invite, they accept, you talk. It's been working for ten years, why change it? Well, change it they did. I forget the details, because it was at launch and they've since fixed it, but party chat just didn't work the way it used to, and I'd argue it worked in a broken manner.

But, yeah, the Xbone is worse. Primarily, IMO, worse because you are no longer the customer, AFAICT. I wouldn't be surprised if suddenly a "whack the monkey for a FREE month of XBL!" banner showed up on the dashboard. But there are some serious usability issues in there, too.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#102

Post by izacus »

kbenson wrote: post #50
simonswords82 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a typical HN user I suppose. Own/run a software company, we even code in Microsoft's tools! However, I do 99.9% of my work on a Mac laptop. I've installed Steam on said laptop but it's just not the same as having a console. I love my XB1, it just works. I buy a game, pop the disc in, download a metric shit tonne of updates for a couple of hours (a rant for another time) and I'm good to go. I don't care about 60FP…

> I've installed Steam on said laptop but it's just not the same as having a console. So, assuming the games you want to play are available on Steam for the Mac (a big if, likely), how bad is an Xbox USB controller, HDMI out to your TV, and Steam Big Picture mode? Is it sub-par, or have you never bothered because you have the xbone (or because it doesn't have what you want to play)? I have neither, so I honestly don'…

I have a PC hooked up to my PC and a PS4 as well. And I'm sorry to say that unfortunately the PC experience is still subpar and way behind the consoles (even though both Sony and Microsoft are working hard to make this experience terrible as well). Biggest issues:

- Big Picture mode is pretty buggy - it tends to freeze after sleep, sometimes won't recognise controller after waking up, it won't properly gain focus after boot, etc. etc.

- Windows is annoying to get into proper "TV/BigPicture" mode. It'll lock screen (forcing you to type in password), show popups and steal focus from BigPicture (again forcing you to look for keyboard/mouse), install updates and demand reboot, etc.

- A lot of games have launchers which don't support a controller so you need to hunt for keyboard/mouse again to start them.

- A lot of games aren't available via Steam and you need to use Origin/Uplay/whatever. Those don't support controllers or a TV mode making experience a hassle.

- Getting 5.1 sound over optical to work properly it a pain in the neck. On PS4 you just enable DTS bitstream. On PC you have to install hacked drivers (if your MB manufacturer didn't pay for license) and then hack XAudio DLLs to get 5.1 sound. And even then it might not work with some games.

- Some games tend to show smaller fonts and/or not support controllers properly in their PC versions.

- Some games won't run as well as on console if you don't have top of the line hardware - even though the PC is faster.

- Multiprofile support is utterly atrocious. On PS4 my GF just chooses another profile and can play same games as I do isolated with different achiements/savegames/settings/etc. On PC it's an utter pain - Steam doesn't behave well if you PC has multiple usernames (!), switching users on Windows isn't possible with a controller, you need to install things twice or just not be able to play same game in parallel.

- My PC has wierd issues randomly waking up from sleep, forcing me to shut it down. When shut down you can't power it on via wireless keyboard/controller making it another hassle to deal with. PS4 wakes up with controller without issues.

All in all, while games do run faster on my 970GTX vs. PS4, the UI experience is painful at times and I can see me and my GF go to PS4 just because it boots significantly faster into game and doesn't force us to hunt for mouse/keyboard to deal with the "issue of the day". On the other hand, PS4 in "rest mode" will install OS updates, game patches and other things while sleeping so it's pretty much always ready to go (unless you just bought a game and need to sit through forced installation).

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#103

Post by patja »

zaroth wrote: post #51

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a…

The Xbox Amazon video streaming app has always been pretty crappy. Significantly worse picture quality than streaming on a computer (unwatchable in my opinion), and odd/exceptional choices for navigation. Much of the blame for this is on Amazon, but some is on Microsoft as well for allowing Amazon to release such a poor quality application. I guess that is to your point on Apple vs. Microsoft: Apple wouldn't allow such a poor quality app on their platform, Microsoft gives them enough rope to hang themselves and doesn't stand in their way.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#104

Post by microtonal »

vgchh wrote: post #89
zaroth wrote: post #51

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a…

IMO the media center wars are being won by the actual TVs. We bought a new Samsung TV (SmartTV) over the Thanksgiving. It provides the usual built-in apps (Netflix, Amazon, Hulu etc.). Media Center experience is much better on this TV compared to other devices: No input switching, native 4K, fast switching between apps, simpler remote experience - no switching activities on a universal remote and turning devices ON/O…

Media Center experience is much better on this TV compared to other devices: No input switching, native 4K, fast switching between apps, simpler remote experience - no switching activities on a universal remote and turning devices ON/OFF.

Unfortunately, they have an history of not being updated and even worse executing all kinds of spying activities on their users. [1]

We bought a dumb-TV and hooked up an Apple TV. At least Apple respect privacy a little more. We also have an XBox One, but we rarely use it. We only have time for quick games. The Apple TV has a nice selection of titles that you can play for a couple of minutes. In contrast to the XBox, it doesn't take ages to actually start up. (Yes, I know you can use standby, but it uses 15W.)

[1] https://www.wired.com/2017/02/smart-tv-spying-vizio-settleme...

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#105

Post by remarkEon »

patja wrote: post #103
zaroth wrote: post #51

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a…

The Xbox Amazon video streaming app has always been pretty crappy. Significantly worse picture quality than streaming on a computer (unwatchable in my opinion), and odd/exceptional choices for navigation. Much of the blame for this is on Amazon, but some is on Microsoft as well for allowing Amazon to release such a poor quality application. I guess that is to your point on Apple vs. Microsoft: Apple wouldn't allow su…

OTOH, I have an Xbox One and a 3rd Gen Apple TV and I much prefer the UI for video streaming on the Xbox to the Apple TV. Scrolling through things takes forever on the Apple device, while the Netflix and Hulu apps on the Xbox are a breeze and I can scroll through content with ease. Though, that's probably a function of the controller (much more input options on the Xbox controller than the Apple TV "remote").

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#106

Post by kbenson »

snuxoll wrote: post #100
kbenson wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll never get the same performance for the same cost on PC. In a direct from-nothing-to-full-system comparison, sure. But if you've got a desktop already, your costs might just be the Nvidia card, and maybe some more RAM if that's lacking. Newegg has Nvidia 1070 cards that advertise DX12 for $370. It looks like a 1080 will cost about the same as I imagine the Xbox refresh will cost for about 15%-20% more power.…

> But if you've got a desktop already Killer right here for an increasing percentage of the population. Fewer households even HAVE a desktop PC these days, laptops, tablets and smartphones are the computing devices of choice for many these days. Even if you HAVE a desktop, there's no reason to assume the power supply can handle a dedicated graphics card if it wasn't shipped with one. Many OEM's like to skimp on power…

> Killer right here for an increasing percentage of the population.

Sure, but that's why I specified everyone here, as in the typical HN reader. There are plenty of things that don't make sense for the average person but make sense for particular groups. I wouldn't recommend a Raspberry Pi game/set top/server to the average person, but I might to someone here.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#107

Post by lowbloodsugar »

joshuamorton wrote: post #23
andrewbarba wrote: post #13

Maybe I am completely off the marks here, and I'm sorry if this is off topic, but as someone who follows very closely what Apple is (or isn't?) doing in their Pro machines I am very curious how those specs compare to what everyone is asking for from Apple. The RAM is obviously low, fine, but it sounds like the CPU and GPU are significantly more capable than anything that Apple is shipping right now, and Microsoft wil…

A big part of it is the type of graphics card. FirePro (the kind in workstations) are much more expensive than normal general purpose graphics cards, which are again more expensive than custom SoCs which can be developed barebones for a specific use. Reason being that a calculation error that results in a dead pixel is fine when you are playing a video game. It'll be there for 1/60s and then be gone, never seen again…

Actually the difference between a top consumer graphics card and a professional card is just the drivers. A few years ago the president of nVidia went as far as to say that we was running a software company that monetized their software with "dongles" (the card). It used to be the case that cutting or adding a link would turn a $500 consumer card into a $2000 pro card: the link would be detected by the driver to enable pro features.

Also, aren't Disney movies raytraced?

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#108

Post by hfourm »

zaroth wrote: post #51

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a…

Totally agree. Although offering "simpler" functionality, the oldschool menu and UI system on the Xbox 360 was LIGHTYEARS ahead of anything the Xbox One has put out. Everything was fast and easy and as expected, from lobby systems, profile viewing, and party chat/party lobbies. I feel like the One was a major step back, UX wise, from the 360

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#109

Post by lotso »

blisse wrote: post #77
markdog12 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This must be highly subjective, because for me, 65" 4k tv 10' away is like night and day to me compared to 1080p

There's no difference side-by-side between 1080p and 4K resolution if you're 5ft or further away from the TV[1], all else being equal. However, all else is rarely equal, and 4K TVs now have lots of other features and technology that make them just better (prettier) buys in general. [1] http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html

Charts like this always get brought up, but I'm not sure there is much rigor in creating them.

Re: Inside the next Xbox: Project Scorpio tech revealed

#110

Post by ballenf »

mikestew wrote: post #66
zaroth wrote: post #51

What they really need to do is maybe just start completely over on the whole Xbox Dashboard. For something that could be so simple and easy, the whole experience of trying to use the Xbox for anything other than playing a game is insanely frustrating. Every time I sit down to try to use it I'm just tearing my hair out! It's been, what, over a decade they've been working on that Dashboard and it has always been just a…

I really don't understand how they have millions of users and so much basic shit Just Doesn't Work. Because those millions of users use the box to play games, like I do. Oh, I've tried all the other stuff, and as you point out it's generally such a steaming pile of shit that I feel foolish for having even tried. (If the Kinect weren't in a box in the garage, I'd be staring in its direction right now.) Frankly, I'd be…

MS's original reveal event focused a great deal on making the Xbone the hub of the entertainment center. It's why I bought it over the PS4. Only to suffer all the same frustrations as the parent to your comment.

If they had sold this as a gaming console that also does a few entertainment center things, then fine. But they didn't, at least not originally.

And the (almost) worthless Kinect acts as the IR blaster for control of other devices. And mine shuts down intermittently since one of the updates a year ago. That's the only thing I use it for since they changed all the voice commands to 'cortana' from 'xbox'.

And those 30 minute updates to unbrick the device. Inability to update all apps/games at once. Inability to have automatic updates without keeping the thing in "jack up your power bill" mode and "keep the fan in turbo mode".

And the useless review system. Who buys games without reading reviews? Not on the xbone. You get star ratings and that's it. So instead of being a hub, you still need your laptop (or phone) on hand.

I dare anyone who's never tried to setup a child account using only the xbox controller. I'm pretty sure MS has never done any usability testing on that. It's nigh unto impossible.

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