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MBAs as CEOs

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Re: MBAs as CEOs

#101

Post by AndrewKemendo »

crdb wrote: post #97
alphonsegaston wrote: post #10

I think it's more useful to think of MBAs as ordination into something like the Jesuits of American Corporatism. Late Capitalism in the US has evolved in such an obviously unequal and environmentally dangerous way that the only recourse we have is to a kind of "mystical" rhetoric. In this kind of system, being some kind of guru is just as important, if not more, than one's actual business acumen. Hence all the TED ta…

> readymade set of sacraments and oaths one can apply to any business to achieve magical effects On the contrary, MBAs are designed not to be a "management formula" but teach by experience in two ways: first, exposure to thousands of real life case studies (often, in the better programs, with the CEO who lived it participating in the class discussion), and a class formed of carefully balanced profiles to have a mix o…

there is no better way to speed-teach a generalist exposure

I'd say there is no way to speed-teach a generalist exposure - so MBA's are off on the wrong foot to start with.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#102

Post by amorphid »

caminante wrote: post #64
amorphid wrote: post #29

I got an MBA. Going into the program, I was super excited about it. Coming out, I was pretty frustrated. I felt like it gave me a lot to think about without teaching me how to do any of it. I was not an master of administering a business.

I don't think that's the purpose of the MBA -- i.e. to become trained for a specific role (though I assume you had opportunities for internships.) You're now (hopefully) more aware of how to structure decisions for a firm and can leverage your awareness to get better results more efficiently.

An MBA might have been better if a worked for a company that paid for it, and wanted MBAs. I didn't follow that path. Live and learn...

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#103

Post by dang »

api wrote: post #8

I strongly agree with Thiel on lots of things about business and innovation. I just don't think I agree with him on politics or social issues to the extent that I can figure out what he actually thinks on these issues. The latter can be challenging since he seems to keep those cards face down.

This is probably the point at which we go from an interesting specific topic (MBAs as CEOs) onto a generic tangent (Thiel generally). Generic tangents are hard to resist but they're the thing that make threads go bad the most, so I've detached this from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14003765 and marked it off-topic. (This doesn't mean your comment was bad.)

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#104

Post by fosco »

_m8fo wrote: post #56
aaron-lebo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's spot on and incredibly unsettling. I come from a conservative religious background and I'm genuinely creeped out by the mythologies that surround companies. I think there are a ton of parallels between today's business leaders and megachurch pastors. There's similarities in the way they build brands, the way followers reverently speak of them, assume they do no wrong, are willing to defend them, and the cognit…

I completely agree. The amount of megacorp apologists on here is deeply disturbing to me. No matter what happens, there's always someone willing to apologize for them. Business seems to be the new religion.

I do not think its new, and this scene[0] captures it really

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zK-b0INu1k

I did not see the movie but this scene was shared with me while discussing the business religion.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#105

Post by AndrewKemendo »

thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

The higher you climb in the ladder, the more you focus on non-technical topics like scaling, budgeting, revenue growth, recruiting, etc etc etc.

You're describing a competent product manager.

Those CEOs you mention are really thinking about geopolitical strategies like how do we deal with this new anti-privacy legislation, or changes in the rare earth metals market, or diversity, or what should we do about VR or cloud etc...

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#106

Post by marcosdumay »

jordanb wrote: post #66
thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

I don't think this is an MBA vs STEMLord thing. Rather an MBA versus "everything else" thing. Especially studies and experiences that really are mind-broadening: """The strange thing about my utter lack of education in management was that it didn’t seem to matter. As a principal and founding partner of a consulting firm that eventually grew to 600 employees, I interviewed, hired, and worked alongside hundreds of busi…

> “win-win situation”

There's something on that phrase that really hits me very hard, so that every time I hear it, by reflex I'll start looking for the exit and what paths I may take to run there.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#107

Post by marcosdumay »

enraged_camel wrote: post #62
thegoldenchild wrote: post #25

I'm aware that HN is a pro-engineering, anti-MBA group of folks, but hopefully my perspective helps add a bit of color from the other side. I got a BS and MS in Computer Science and ended up working as a software engineer for a number of years. After a while, I was left wanting more, so I enrolled in an MBA program. IMO, 50-60% of classes in business school are fluff leadership rah-rah self-development bullshit. But…

>>Satya Nadella doesn't give a fuck about a 5% latency reduction on the Bing landing page. He might if you are a smart engineer and demonstrate that that 5% reduction in latency results in $100 million additional revenue per year by way of more users and more ads. I just made up that number, but still. My point is, at the end of the day one doesn't need an MBA to draw the connection between their technical endeavors…

He is a very bad CEO if he can't understand that a 5% reduction in latency results in $X of extra revenue by himself¹.

If an engineer can articulate his companies business cases better than him, MS board would better put that engineer as CEO.

1 - Even if "by himself" here means just taking the initiative to ask somebody

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#108

Post by muh_gradle »

Retric wrote: post #49
basseq wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. "I worked with some bad MBAs, so anyone who holds that degree must be bad."

MBA's add other MBA's so having zero tends to be the better choice than looking for the 'good ones.' Remember, a primary focus of MBA programs is getting to positions of power, so they are great at self marketing. Further, if the market says X is valuable and you think it's useless then you are better off saving money by avoiding the price premium.

This is a silly reason. How is this any different to engineers with detailed LinkedIn profiles. Everyone self markets.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#109

Post by caminante »

amorphid wrote: post #102
caminante wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the purpose of the MBA -- i.e. to become trained for a specific role (though I assume you had opportunities for internships.) You're now (hopefully) more aware of how to structure decisions for a firm and can leverage your awareness to get better results more efficiently.

An MBA might have been better if a worked for a company that paid for it, and wanted MBAs. I didn't follow that path. Live and learn...

Happens... Certain roles match well with "general" MBA learning experiences. However, I see many fail by not specializing with their MBA experiences. Each year something like 100K new MBAs join the workforce.

Re: MBAs as CEOs

#110

Post by cholantesh »

alphonsegaston wrote: post #76
cholantesh wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was nearly bamboozled by their successor Quixtar while in university. Luckily I was able to smell the scam when I went to one of their sessions. Very vague and very pushy about us buying into a scheme before we could learn how it worked.

Glad you were able to dodge that one. They've ruined a lot of lives and families in the Midwest, where, incredibly, they still are treated as a legitimate business.

My understanding is that, as a multi-level marketing scheme, they are doing enough to be considered a legal entity as opposed to a pyramid scheme (which is what they are).
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