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The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

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Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#101

Post by phonon »

doubleplusgood wrote: post #87
literallycancer wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>From my experience at Ben Gurion airport...security there has different stages. When you first walk in to the airport, even before you check in and get your ticket, some friendly attractive person will start chatting with you and ask about your trip. They will not identify themselves (or be dressed) as security. Your friend might very well have mentioned something to that person. This is interesting, where can I rea…

On mobile, this article seems to provide some info http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/4978149

Yup. You'd be surprised what comes out of your mouth if someone attractive and personable starts smiling at you and asking questions randomly. You don't have your "defenses up" and you start blabbing away before you figure out that no, this person is not actually trying to hit on me :-)

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#102

Post by pavel_lishin »

logicallee wrote: post #85
pavel_lishin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I will give your argument a name: "argument from helplessness." We can't solve it, so we should just accept that it will open happen. He didn't say that. He said that dirty feet are always a problem, and people will always track dirt into the house, and the solution to that is not to selectively ban muslims from wearing their shoes into your house, or banning Nike sneakers, or people who have recently walked throug…

The reason I asked them to follow my train of thought is that I feared I wasn't expressing it clearly enough, which given you response and others', seems to be the case. Basically, if you want to argue against a ban on Nike shoes, one of the worst arguments you can make is what you just said: that people will always track dirt into the house no matter what you do. (It's a bad argument that won't convince anyone.) The…

> But the worst argument you can make is "People will always tie up the pilot and copilot, and banning shoelaces won't stop this."

Nobody ever, ever made that argument. The argument was that people will always try to strangle the pilot. People will always have dirt on their shoes. There is a way to keep my carpet clean, but banning Nikes won't do it.

You will never get the percentage of people who want to commit terrible acts to zero, so at a certain point, you hit the point of diminishing returns so hard that it not only gets you literally zero gain, it can actually start to increase your risk.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#103

Post by rplst8 »

logicallee wrote: post #44
rplst8 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, suppose that someone said, "At some point we should just accept that ransoms will happen" and so simply stop supporting the FBI and let bad guys kidnap any family of billionaires whenever they want, and to have these billionaires start paying ransoms. No one is saying we shouldn't attempt to stop an attack that is known, or that we shouldn't investigate who carried out and authorized an attack and seek justice.…

The part that you say "nobody says" is what I took the GP to be saying, roughly... Obviously we can expand your "an attack that is known" to preventing other kinds of attack - for example if a $50 device beeps whenever there's an explosive (it sniffs the air as passengers walk past it) then it can prevent unknown attacks and I'm sure you would agree that it should be installed rather than "accept" that passengers wil…

> for example if a $50 device beeps whenever there's an explosive (it sniffs the air as passengers walk past it) then it can prevent unknown attacks and I'm sure you would agree that it should be installed rather than "accept" that passengers will always bring explosives on planes.

Of course. Passive detection of illegal substances is fine by me. But making me partially disrobe, manual searches of by bags, and prevention from travel if I do not submit to the coercion is wrong and a violation of everyone's rights. A "bomb" detector is no different from a smoke detector. It's not a search (as long as it isn't also used to identify people by smell and track their movements).

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#104

Post by chimeracoder »

junto wrote: post #31
Fife wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could they possibly say to "he was hot" ?

I think the comment was intended to be overtly racist. LGBT folk are pretty welcome in Israel, but you "should be" sleeping with Israelis and not "Arabs".

> LGBT folk are pretty welcome in Israel

They are if they're Israeli (and white). People of Palestinian descent living in Israel (as well as Jewish Arabs who are not Palestinian, to a lesser extent) have a very different experience with being gay in Israel.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#105

Post by desdiv »

Symmetry wrote: post #84

Is there any reason to think that Trump doesn't have investments in airlines that are competing with the ones hurt by this ban?

The Ethics in Government Act of 1978[0] mandates annual financial disclosures for high offices, so we'll see soon enough. Here's Obama's 2015 disclosure forms[1], for example.

It's times like this that I'm actually glad that the Middle-eastern oil-funded airlines are all private, since this way there's no way for Trump to short them off the books.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethics_in_Government_Act

[1] https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2016/05/16/preside...

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#106

Post by camillomiller »

jawngee wrote: post #21
camillomiller wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every security check in Europe and SE Asia I passed in the last few years (~60 flights) mandated to take every device out of the bag, iPads and smartphones included

Hmm. I live in Vietnam and fly out of country once or twice a month and I've never been asked to take an iPad out of my bag. I fly SGP, SGN, BKK, TPE. SGN did have me remove my shoes last time I flew though, which was a first.

I flew Hanoi to Da Nang and then da nang to Bangkok. IPad and phones out both times

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#107

Post by camillomiller »

_ea1k wrote: post #69
camillomiller wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every security check in Europe and SE Asia I passed in the last few years (~60 flights) mandated to take every device out of the bag, iPads and smartphones included

I have been through a security gate in Amsterdam that required taking out all wires as well (microusb cables, earbuds, etc). It was just really bizarre to me.

Weird again... schiphol was the only one where I didn't take everything out, even the laptop could stay in. They had newer scanners, probably more powerful

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#108

Post by bm1362 »

jlg23 wrote: post #91
bm1362 wrote: post #86

I just transited through Qatar yesterday, bound for JFK, and had my electronics forced into the cargo hold. They made us check a bag 3 separate times: for a hair straightener, a Nintendo Switch and a Kindle. Following a mind-numbing 25 hours; it turns out that our bags then got lost and we're now awaiting some update from the airline.

Ouch. Your story has already been the backing of my policy even before I knew it: Never ever fly without my most valuable things in carry-on luggage (and twice I refused to board the plane because of this - both times they relented because getting my checking in luggage out of the plane (required by safety regulations) would have been too much). Good luck with your lost luggage :(

Yeah I'm also wary and _never_ check a bag. But there is literally no option, they were very thorough and serious about this. You do not want to be stuck in Doha, Qatar- with no visa- arguing over your {iPad}. They had setup a new scanner checkpoint _at the gate_ to our flight.

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#109

Post by logicallee »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #102
logicallee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason I asked them to follow my train of thought is that I feared I wasn't expressing it clearly enough, which given you response and others', seems to be the case. Basically, if you want to argue against a ban on Nike shoes, one of the worst arguments you can make is what you just said: that people will always track dirt into the house no matter what you do. (It's a bad argument that won't convince anyone.) The…

> But the worst argument you can make is "People will always tie up the pilot and copilot, and banning shoelaces won't stop this." Nobody ever, ever made that argument. The argument was that people will always try to strangle the pilot. People will always have dirt on their shoes. There is a way to keep my carpet clean, but banning Nikes won't do it. You will never get the percentage of people who want to commit terr…

Okay, in your own words please rephrase what the OP meant with "at some point we are going to have to realise that terrorists are always going to want to target aircraft and just live with it".

What does "just live with it" mean, to you? I don't have to just live with the fact that there is probably at least 1 cannibal in the world (out of 7 billion people), today, who would probably love to cook and eat me (or eat me raw).

So the literal reading (about living with the fact that there are people "wanting to") doesn't make any sense. It's not an actual statement. So what does "and just live with it" mean, to you?

Re: The TSA's Selective Laptop Ban

#110

Post by dageshi »

sandworm101 wrote: post #95
dageshi wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal experience has been that Dubai (which I believe is one on the list?) has some of the highest security I've seen. Everytime I go through it as a passenger connecting on another flight (not leaving the airport) I've been though security (shoes off x-rays e.t.c.) after leaving the plane and getting into the terminal proper. In addition there were spot checks in the waiting lounge before actually bording my o…

The Dubai people have always been great to me. They are intrusive but they are polite. They don't make you feel like a criminal or that you have done anything wrong. Being spot-checked in Dubai isn't anything as embarrassing as being surrounded by TSA agents angry because you forgot a thumbdrive in your coat pocket. In Dubai I feel like a customer purchasing a product. At US airports I feel like a peon asking permiss…

Yes politeness goes a long way in such situations.
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