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High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

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Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#101

Post by oxryly1 »

technics256 wrote: post #69
arca_vorago wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like my old boss. I'm a combat vet, and he said to me, before memorial day, "What's a holiday? I don't take holidays. I'm here all the time.." Pissed me off. Dude is the CEO and partial owner, so it's completely different. If they want to pretend to be Elon Musk and want me to as well, they better at least pay like it to justify the lack of work/life balance. I am a human being whose existence is entirely i…

As an American who moved to Germany, that mindset was completely removed here. Not only do people tell you to take your vacation time if you don't, they get worried if you are working too much or too hard. It's a great relief to be here and see a different mindset outside that of the "all work no holiday" cultures you can find in the states.

Which is why world dominating tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, etc were naturally founded in Germany.

I kid, I kiiid... no really that was both sarcastic and joking.

Is the "all work no holiday" necessary for successful tech startups on the order of those?

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#102

Post by oxryly1 »

kafkaesq wrote: post #79

Rubbish. It is exactly through their ability to "soldier on" in spite of intense and sometimes challenging surroundings that high-performing employees distinguish themselves as such. And on top of this, remember that the other way your best performers distinguish themselves is in the fact that they most definitely are not complainers. So if any of your employees start yapping about your proposed move to an open plan…

Yet another of the many ways a company will say "shut up and make me a shit-ton of money" without really realizing it... although sometimes they do realize it. They also like to say "don't force me to actually manage people and projects properly... I don't know how."

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#103

Post by Namrog84 »

gozur88 wrote: post #85
ratsz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be lucky you have cube walls. Many open plans don't even have those!

3.5 feet is barely higher than a desk (a normal one). That's like leaving your waiter a penny tip.

Stack 2 walls on top of each other! And laid that with 2 walls you'll be double effective. Then convince everyone needs it. And extend that idea from there!

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#104

Post by arca_vorago »

oxryly1 wrote: post #101
technics256 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American who moved to Germany, that mindset was completely removed here. Not only do people tell you to take your vacation time if you don't, they get worried if you are working too much or too hard. It's a great relief to be here and see a different mindset outside that of the "all work no holiday" cultures you can find in the states.

Which is why world dominating tech companies like Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, etc were naturally founded in Germany. I kid, I kiiid... no really that was both sarcastic and joking. Is the "all work no holiday" necessary for successful tech startups on the order of those?

I don't think those are really relevant to the discussion, because we are talking about lack of incentive. If I was working at space-x and getting the subsequent pay bump, I might consider it worth it. The current problem is outside of the few big guys in SV, the rest of the country is underpaying and overworking IT staff.

You can underpay and underwork, and have low turnover and medium-high return on talent, or you can overpay and overwork, with a high turnover but a high return on talent, but to underpay and overwork is a recipe for hemmoraging talent.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#105

Post by everybodyknows »

adrianggg wrote: post #71
pklausler wrote: post #15

I guess that I fall into this characterization. Over my 36-year career, I've sat in solo offices with doors, shared offices, cubicles with progressively shorter walls, and wall-less high-density desk arrays. I've easily been twice as productive with a door as I am in a noisy environment -- all the other arrangements suck if there is even one inconsiderate human in the space making a phone call, moving a pound of mucu…

I do wonder why I have to purchase good headphones and wear them to combat this problem? What are the long term impacts of wearing headphones? bacteria growth and hearing loss? Can't be good for my health long term. Flow is a state of concentration, breaking flow take a longtime to get back in, shouting questions across the room is a context switch and not an asynchronous choice for me if I'm in the middle of somethi…

You may find it hard to find audiophile headphones that suppress voices adequately. I had better results with ear muffs from the local hardware store intended for leaf-blowers. Get the biggest, ugliest ones you can find.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#106

Post by cwilkes »

nunez wrote: post #72
officelineback wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is I like to get my workstation ergonomically perfect for my issues (I have back and shoulder issues) and using a generic table with no extra monitors for my quiet intense work sucks. It should be the other way around...everyone gets a private office, but has an option to join the fray in an open office area.

If everyone had an open office, then very few would use the open space area. Also, providing offices for everyone is expensive, and it's harder to collect people sitting in different offices than it is when everyone's in an open space. I'm personally against everyone getting an office, but we'll agree to disagree :)

How expensive is it really? Maybe $15k to setup some walls? Let's sAy $30k as you will lose about 1/3rd the floor space.

That's a one time cost. Amortize that out over a 5 year office lease and it is peanuts compared to the productivity gains and lower turnover.

Also once you go with a private or semi private office you won't want to go back. Any employee from there interviewing at places with open offices will probably think how much they will hate it there.

I know the occasional person will pop up with the "I love hearing other people jibber jabber throughout the day!" But 9 out of 10 people I talk with would rather not.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#107

Post by NamTaf »

My current office has 475mm high dividers. Next year they plan to relocate us to the 'workplace of the future' with barriers that in some instances are sub-300mm. They have 3 setups - a 4x desk each getting a 90 degree partition, a 3x each getting 120 and a 6x flat rectangular thing with no dividers. We will all be expected to hotdesk (what happens to my desktop workstation is anyone's guess?) and will get a single ultra-widescreen attached to a laptop dock (bye productivity gains from 2 monitors). Each of the configurations has less overall desk real estate which is going to be fun when we have to roll out A0 drawings.

I already get constantly distracted and find it hard to work. I'm placed next to a corridor just near where one of 3 entryways from the foyer into the office area is. Previously, I was next to 1 of 2 printers, at a junction to a hallway holding the toilets, which doubled as a spot for people to strike up conversation. I rarely get any extended periods of focus here which is infurating when my job is structural analysis, maths, etc. We are currently given a grand total of 8 meeting rooms per floor (200+ people), most of which are permanently tied up with meetings so you can't even use them for private workspaces. This is something they claim they'll fix in the new office but in reality you will be lucky to get one.

The new place sounds and looks (when I checked out their examples of the desks) like it's going to be a nightmare even worse than this. At least here I can sort of sink into my seat and fall below the dividers, and at least I also get my own space as a desk that I can customise to suit my own needs/ergonomics/etc. and have it feel like it's my own space where I have some miniscule hope of focusing.

I'm already polishing my CV in anticipation of bailing because of it.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#108

Post by pklausler »

everybodyknows wrote: post #105
adrianggg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do wonder why I have to purchase good headphones and wear them to combat this problem? What are the long term impacts of wearing headphones? bacteria growth and hearing loss? Can't be good for my health long term. Flow is a state of concentration, breaking flow take a longtime to get back in, shouting questions across the room is a context switch and not an asynchronous choice for me if I'm in the middle of somethi…

You may find it hard to find audiophile headphones that suppress voices adequately. I had better results with ear muffs from the local hardware store intended for leaf-blowers. Get the biggest, ugliest ones you can find.

Good idea, especially if they are big enough to fit over Bluetooth earphones (e.g. AirPods).

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#109

Post by Arizhel »

ratsz wrote: post #44
mason240 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our company is currently relocating to new office, and they want an open office plan in the space. We will pack in tight, and our cube walls will all be 3.5 feet high. We have adjustable standing desks that will coming with us, so when standing we will towering over every one and I already know it's going to be awkward for me. The best part is our 5 person IT team will be right next to 25 people who work phones for c…

Be lucky you have cube walls. Many open plans don't even have those!

It makes little difference at 3.5 feet. I've worked in two offices like that; you might as well not have any walls at all because you can still see and talk to everyone around you. I don't see the point in even having such walls, except probably to use as structural support for the desktop surfaces. The only advantage they have is that they don't need legs like a standard fold-up table: those legs take up space under the table and you can bump your legs into them.

Re: High-performance employees need quieter work spaces

#110

Post by Arizhel »

chrisbennet wrote: post #98
gozur88 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3.5 feet is barely higher than a desk (a normal one). That's like leaving your waiter a penny tip.

Yeah, but at least people can't see your junk on "wear a kilt to work" day... I get that for a startup money is tight. Instead of telling employees: "You folks really deserve a your own offices but we just can't afford it." Instead they tell you the big lie; that they are doing it because it "increases collaboration".

If money is really that tight, you can just have people work from home. That's a lot cheaper than renting commercial office space.
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