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White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

washingtonpost.com

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Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#101

Post by kartan »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #94
kartan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they don't suffer the consequences of buying a useless degree, why wouldn't they keep doing it? So when you are young and still have no degree nor experience in life you should be punished if you choose wrong. Unless you are rich, then if you choose wrong you have a second opportunity. Shouldn't some of the burden be on the institutions offering the degrees? They have the money, they have the knowledge, they hav…

The deeper problem is that we link education with employment and leave it at that. Vocational and apprenticeship programs are excellent ways for people to learn useful skills while remaining gainfully employed.

> Vocational and apprenticeship programs are excellent ways for people to learn useful skills while remaining gainfully employed.

And the other way around is also true. There is value in people educated on arts or science even if they don't get a job directly related to it.

You are right that the link education-employment is in fact is wrong, I will say it is quite elitist. It presumes that people in jobs that don't require especial skills should not get a high education and at the same time that only people with a degree should have skilled jobs. And that's not true.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#102

Post by mnm1 »

brogrammer2 wrote: post #26

Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Education being the bedrock of an advanced society, isn't but natural the developed economies like US should be able to subsidize education to such an extant that youth of country don't have to worry about paying their tuition fee and focus more on learning and innovation that will take everyone forward. It is but a reflection on the sad s…

Because they can and they want to make money (even the non-profits). There's no other way to justify a 3x increase in tuition over 10-15 yrs. Teacher's salaries have stagnated or dropped (due to use of adjuncts) and course material costs have effectively gone to zero (most materials are available on the Internet so the only excuse for $300 books now is greed or very esoteric subjects). That's why I refuse to donate to my alma mater. They have more than enough money. They have an unlimited, endless supply of money coming in from these federal loan programs, and they increase tuition to tap into more and more of it. It's a never ending cycle of making money off of students while offering the least amount of education possible.

This is what a society that doesn't value education in the least looks like. Instead of figuring out how to educate our population, we're too busy figuring out how to prevent people from pursuing education because most people are just too stupid for college by the time they reach college age. And why wouldn't they be, considering that in our best public schools, they just spent 12 years being babysat and learning almost nothing?

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#103

Post by brianwawok »

razorunreal wrote: post #59
brianwawok wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. All that cost a lot. States and federal gov't pays less each year. The difference has to come from somewhere? In any case, its not perfect but I will take US colleges 100x over Japanese Colleges or Chinese Colleges or Mexican Colleges or 98% of the colleges in…

Even if US colleges are better than 98% of the world (which I doubt, it seems like you conveniently forgot Canada, Europe, Australia, etc.) employers are mostly using that degree as a box tick. Convincing students they need the exhorbitantly priced best when they really don't still seems predatory to me. Personally I paid the equivalent of 16kUSD for a 4 year software degree in New Zealand, and my fortune 500 employe…

There is a big range. You can get a 4 year "software degree" from a community college in the US for no more than 20k USD. Most of the big numbers you see toted are for private university, or giant flagship campuses. Many schools do offer cheaper deals at the smaller campuses. Don't buy the hype that any college degree in the US cost $200k.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#104

Post by jimmaswell »

nhangen wrote: post #10

I'm surprised by the comments here. I am a fiscal conservative, but having taken and struggled to pay for student loans, and having hired people in the same situation, find that the lending programs are predatory by nature in that they know students will be unable to service the high monthly payments, and eventually default as a result. Do I think people should pay their debt? Yes, but these lenders are the same lend…

My reading of the explanations on studentloans.gov was that the standard payment was a minimum of $50/month, and that it could be even lower on an income based plan, is that wrong? Was your minimum higher?

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#105

Post by brianwawok »

ginko wrote: post #54
brianwawok wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. All that cost a lot. States and federal gov't pays less each year. The difference has to come from somewhere? In any case, its not perfect but I will take US colleges 100x over Japanese Colleges or Chinese Colleges or Mexican Colleges or 98% of the colleges in…

>Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. Why would you expect your university to provide dorms for you? This whole living on campus thing on Anglo universities was always weird to me. You'd only expect perks like that if you pay thousands of dollars a semester. Also Re:"Medical care": That's what universal health care is for.

> Why would you expect your university to provide dorms for you

Traditionally, you go to school hundreds or thousands of miles away from your family. You need someplace to stay, no? Growing up in a city and you will have much more options to "live at home"

> That's what universal health care is for

The US does not have universal health care. So not sure what you are saying, how could a university not charge for something that is required and not provided elsewhere?

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#106

Post by brianwawok »

pilsetnieks wrote: post #96
brianwawok wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sometimes I do wonder why American Universities charge exorbitant tuition fee? Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. All that cost a lot. States and federal gov't pays less each year. The difference has to come from somewhere? In any case, its not perfect but I will take US colleges 100x over Japanese Colleges or Chinese Colleges or Mexican Colleges or 98% of the colleges in…

I bet they'd gladly pay $10'000 less per year even if it meant no $100M football stadium.

If you read my posts further down, Football is one of the only net positives for most universities. So getting rid of Football may raise your tuition by $500.

Now if you got rid of swimming, lacrosse, cross country, track, cricket, etc. etc., that would lower tuition by a bit.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#107

Post by enraged_camel »

UpDownLeftRight wrote: post #39
BucketSort wrote: post #5

After a few years of unemployment and being treated for bipolar depression my loans were in default. Due to the grace of the system at the time, I was able to bring my loans out of default and I now pay them like everyone else. This type of thing punishes the downtrodden even more. There must be a set of checks and balances that at least attempts to differentiate between deadbeats and broke people that don't need a h…

I don't pay student loans. Do you know why? I don't have them. I went to an inexpensive local school, worked while going to school, and took the public bus to and from it. (I was fortunate enough to be able to live with my parents.) While I don't know your situation, it's hard for me to feel sorry for someone who went to an expensive private school, lived on campus in a "country club" atmosphere, and then expects the…

>>I was fortunate enough to be able to live with my parents.

Um, you added this as an afterthought, but it's by far the biggest expense. We're talking probably around $500 per month on average (if you live with others) plus utilities, not to mention food. So you were able to save around $1000 per month living with parents - and that's a conservative estimate.

Many people aren't so fortunate.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#108

Post by mnm1 »

grogenaut wrote: post #80
cromwellian wrote: post #53

Costs of increased military spending in Trump's budget: $54 billion Estimated costs to make college tuition free for every citizen: $62 billion

Not a correction but I'd point out that if uni was free, it would cost more than $62 Billion as more people would go.

Having free university doesn't mean every person gets in. Nor does it mean there are more spots than currently. It does mean the competition will be much more difficult for the current spots.

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#109

Post by AlexCoventry »

neves wrote: post #67

This USA student loan scheme is one of the most brilliant machines of social control ever devised. People get of college already owing a lot money, now they have to work for shit, and put up with their asshole bosses do. They can't have the option to spend couple of months searching for jobs or they will have to default their debt and mess all their future life. Nothing like a well behaved society where the workers c…

"...a cynic might argue that we haven't really abolished slavery; we've just relabeled it. The cynic would have a point: an ancient Greek would certainly have seen the distinction between a slave and an indebted wage laborer as, at best, a legal nicety."

https://books.google.com/books?id=lliTBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT275

Re: White House rolls back protections for people in default on student loans

#110

Post by ginko »

brianwawok wrote: post #105
ginko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Students demand a lot. Good profs. Dorms with AC. Sports teams. Medical care. Why would you expect your university to provide dorms for you? This whole living on campus thing on Anglo universities was always weird to me. You'd only expect perks like that if you pay thousands of dollars a semester. Also Re:"Medical care": That's what universal health care is for.

> Why would you expect your university to provide dorms for you Traditionally, you go to school hundreds or thousands of miles away from your family. You need someplace to stay, no? Growing up in a city and you will have much more options to "live at home" > That's what universal health care is for The US does not have universal health care. So not sure what you are saying, how could a university not charge for somet…

>Traditionally, you go to school hundreds or thousands of miles away from your family. You need someplace to stay, no?

I still don't see why it's the university that has to provide this.

>The US does not have universal health care.

Well, there's your problem

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