Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job • Hacker News Board

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#101

Post by amyjess » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:45 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #53

amyjess wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If money was the sole determiner of what kind of job you'd choose to work, you'd be in finance, enterprise sales, or medicine, not webdev. There's no amount you could pay me to be a farmer, just like there's no amount you could pay be to become a doctor, a salesman, a lawyer, etc. I'm in tech because I like what I do.

That's not true at all. Medicine requires many years of your life in training, and going hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. Also, it is extremely competitive and I'd probably fail out of it. High risk for no guaranteed payout. Finance also doesn't actually pay that much. I had friends working at banks right out of college making Being a lawyer at a not top tier institute also sucks in terms of pay/requires deb…

> Tech really is quite high paying and good for people at all levels. I know people who did bootcamps and are now making 100K with a couple months of training.

It depends on where you live. I'm in Texas; you will never see that kind of salary where I am. I know a guy who had something like 15 years of experience, and he didn't break 100k until he moved to NYC.

When I graduated college in 2007, some of my friends got jobs at a local video game company. They got paid 38k and worked at least 80 hours a week, if not more. It was your stereotypical exploitative "crunch time all the time" game developer. I personally got a job in telecom, and I was making 42k. From talking to various people, 38-45k was the norm for a fresh college graduate then (it might be a little higher now because inflation, but not much). Back in late 2013/early 2014 I was looking for a job, and I was told by everyone that the going rate for somebody with my experience was 60k. I ended up putting my job search on hold for personal reasons, picked it up again in late 2014, and landed a position that paid 65k.

Those inflated six-figure entry-level salaries are only found in high-cost-of-living places like the Bay Area and NYC.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#102

Post by relaytheurgency » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:46 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #59

relaytheurgency wrote: post #13

Farming is one of the most dangerous jobs in the US. There are reasons aside from money that people choose to pursue other careers.

https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshcfoi1.htm#2015 If anyone else wants data on this assertion (farming as one of the most dangerous jobs in the US). It certainly appears to be up there, in both gross and per capita numbers. Seems to largely (for agricultural workers) be associated with transportation (not equipment, so perhaps the way many workers travel around fields and all in the back of trucks and similar unsafe methods?…

The decline in equipment deaths and injuries is mostly due to automation. Not nearly as many people with their hands near a PTO as there used to be.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#103

Post by nradov » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:46 PM UTC

kashkhan wrote: post #50

greedo wrote: post #28

When I was younger, I worked at a McDonalds in SoCal. Almost all the employees were white teenagers. The managers were white as well. We didn't make much, just a bit above minimum wage, but we were all mostly high-school students or college students working in the summer to pay tuition. This went on until around 1984 or so, when it became much harder to hire this demographic. It wasn't as cool to work at fast food, a…

it's better to let teenagers invest in future job skills than past job skills. Sure grape picking would build character, resourcefulness, obedience to bosses and teamwork, but it's got no future. Same thing with fast food jobs.

Knowing how to show up on time, follow instructions, and be polite to customers is a future job skill.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#104

Post by relaytheurgency » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

tetraodonpuffer wrote: post #36

relaytheurgency wrote: post #13

Farming is one of the most dangerous jobs in the US. There are reasons aside from money that people choose to pursue other careers.

I would think it being seasonal would put a big damper on people wanting to do it: if you can only work 6-8 months a year, what are you going to do the rest of the time?

How many teachers are there in this country? Safe, seasonal work isn't exactly common but it's certainly not shirked due to not being busy for 3 months. A lot of teachers find that to be a benefit.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#105

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

kodfodrasz wrote: post #75

dragonwriter wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we get the unemployed Midwesterners into Napa Valley? Just a thought: Government loans with low interest, delayed and income-contingent repayment, and forgiveness after a set period of on-time payments for relocation expenses for unemployed adults with job offers outside of their own immediate area. Getting people to where the work is good for the public fisc, good for employers, and good for the people invo…

But why move people out with large government funding? Why not move some work there?

People are easier to move than agricultural land, and employers with jobs that can be moved easily and realize cost efficiencies by doing that usually get financing to do so (though government programs to incentive moving jobs into depressed areas aren't unheard of.)

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#106

Post by tutufan » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:48 PM UTC

scotty79 wrote: post #16

stale2002 wrote: post #3

Well then obviously wages haven't risen enough. For an extreme example, pay me 200$ an hour and I'll quit my web dev job and do it myself.

Ok, but that would mean that the price of produce would need to grow nearly just as much. And then nobody would buy it. So at some level of price of labor it's better for the producer to close the shop and take the losses instead of rising wages even more and risking more losses due to crashing demand.

That's correct. As a society, we ought to either accept this, and the resultant (probably large) increase in wine prices, or create a legal program for transient low-wage workers.

But by trying to have our cake and eat it too, we're placing illegal workers in a rather unpleasant situation (or motivating them to place themselves in such situations, if you prefer). They're ripe for all kinds of abuse, and lack the kinds of stability we all want.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#107

Post by jbigelow76 » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

dropit_sphere wrote: post #74

Status, status, status. Another way to think of it might be: How much would I have to pay you for you to walk around with a small amount of shit on your forehead all day? We have somehow gotten ourselves in the position where manual labor relegates one to be a social untouchable. This means that anyone with a shred of self-interest gets out ASAP, which means the political power of labor is disproportionately weak in…

I think you are really reaching on the Stranger Things connection. The main protagonists were about 13 years old, even a 13 year old in today's times that is aware they might not be in a location with a lot of social mobility does not have a lot of choice in the matter. Even the show's high-schooler supporting characters in the same demo would most likely wait until college to make a move to a different area.

I think Stranger things had to be set in the 80s cause if you were about to be killed by an inter-dimensional monster you'd be live streaming it on Facebook to the very end which throws a kink in the narrative.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#108

Post by gthtjtkt » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

Good!

How does that saying go? "If you can't pay your employees a living wage, your business shouldn't exist"?

And maybe it's about time consumers learned the true cost of the goods they buy, without the artificial price suppression of abundant, cheap labor.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#109

Post by anoonmoose » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

datatan wrote: post #77

orf wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

inaccurate and pretty stupid actually.

Oh look, he used the word stupid. Obviously he must be right. I mean, such a well reason argument can't be ignored can it?

I mean, neither of your comments added anything to the conversation.

Re: Wages rise on California farms, Americans still don’t want the job

#110

Post by smcdow » Fri, Mar 17, 2017, 8:51 PM UTC

ysavir wrote: post #26

> Before the day was through, Solorio would make the same pitch to dozens of men and women, approaching a taco truck, a restaurant and a homeless encampment. Has he tried Craigslist? Or has his entire hiring strategy involved approaching random people on the street?

I would expect his target audience doesn't spend much time on the internet.