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Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

nytimes.com

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Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#101

Post by MichaelMoser123 »

matt4077 wrote: post #15
anigbrowl wrote: post #5

I disapprove of assassination but I've got to admit this one scores 10/10 for sheer style.

Certainly the attempt to kill Castro, of all people, with an exploding cigar should rank higher. Just imagine how that CIA brain storming went: A: "We're tasked with killing Castro. Again. Any ideas? Anything? Nothing is stupid! Castro! Go! B: "Cigars" C: "Boom!" A: "I see we're in mind-melt here. No wonder the western world trusts us with their lives during these troubling times" If you insist on actually successful…

I think it's a myth. He didn't need to import any cigars to Cuba and if they could get as close as slipping cigars into his supply they could have killed him anyway.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#103

Post by varjag »

winfred wrote: post #87
M_Grey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah... like using Polonium to kill Litvinenko... this is all about sending a message.

Or obscuring the source. If I wanted to cause a Chinese-North Korea conflict, I'd do it in a way that gives me enough time to tie up loose ends and points in a certain direction. Same with Litvinenko. We will never find out the true story. Was it a message? Probably. But from who to who? Might have been FSB, but there were plenty of other parties that really didn't like Litvinenko and could have used Russian Polonium…

Lugovoy, the murderer of Litvinenko is now a member or parliament in Russia with extradition requests of the UK being denied. It's pretty clear the assassination had the highest possible approval. Sometimes, things are exactly what they look like.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#104

Post by Lordarminius »

wbl wrote: post #30
gozur88 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is it with these tinpot strongmen? Polonium, mortars, nerve gas... in my day when you wanted someone dead you just shot him.

Do you know about Georgi Markov? Bulgaria concerned about the propaganda fallout if they killed him and it was known, so they injected him with ricin instead. Mossad attempted to use poison to assassinate the head of Hezbollah. It went comically wrong, with his driver chasing down the assassins with a rolled-up newspaper.

> Mossad attempted to use poison to assassinate the head of Hezbollah. It went comically wrong, with his driver chasing down the assassins with a rolled-up newspaper.

Mossad successfully poisoned the head of Hezbollah by spraying a delayed action toxin into his ear. His driver (who did not comprehend what had happened, and whom he was dealing with) chased after the assassins who in turn fled fearing he was a bodyguard. Nazrallah was for certain a dead man and was only saved by the personal intervention of the the Jordanian king who ordered the Israeli ambassador to provide an antidote or deal with the consequences of a hostile Jordanian state.

The Sheik was administered the antidote on his hospital bed and survived.

There was nothing to laugh about.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#105

Post by harperlee »

staunch wrote: post #89
M_Grey wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad to discover that I'm not alone in that, "Hmmm, I wonder if my internet history has put me on all of the lists yet?" reading pattern. On Wikipedia especially, the fun is opening an endlessly nesting series of related topics. Sometimes that can get... weird.

I used to worry about being "on a list" and then realized I wasn't okay with worrying about while considering myself a free person. Every time I wonder if I might get in trouble for reading, clicking, or watching something I make sure to do it.

That is a great attitude, and it not only helps you (by being more knowledgeable and less worried about hypotheticals), but also the rest of us by reducing effectiveness on the profiling of those who read certain things - the same way that being a normal person that uses tor reduces the "use tor"="pedophile" fallacy (and substitute tor by end2end encryption, torrents, decentralised communication, or what have you).

So thank you!

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#106

Post by arjie »

danbruc wrote: post #100
arjie wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't taking the antidote preemptively a valid form of prophylaxis? What do you mean by contrasting the two things?

A prophylaxis is aimed at preventing an agent from unfolding its effect, an antidote is aimed at reversing its effects. An antidote can only be used as a prophylaxis if it has no adverse effects in the absence of the effect caused by the agent.

Thank you for your comment. I'm familiar with that. I'm asking about this case.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#107

Post by raverbashing »

eck wrote: post #11
gwern wrote: post #2

Does VX explain how the two women survived despite using bare hands to administer an apparently skin-absorbable poison? It has binary agent formulations, so each women could have one half on her hand and avoid any contamination by swiping very fast.

It could have been an accident that they survived. In this case the assassins dying along with the victim is a feature, not a bug.

If the case is that the "assassins" were bystanders that were convinced to participate into it, it is highly probable they were expendable

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#108

Post by mchan »

winfred wrote: post #87
M_Grey wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah... like using Polonium to kill Litvinenko... this is all about sending a message.

Or obscuring the source. If I wanted to cause a Chinese-North Korea conflict, I'd do it in a way that gives me enough time to tie up loose ends and points in a certain direction. Same with Litvinenko. We will never find out the true story. Was it a message? Probably. But from who to who? Might have been FSB, but there were plenty of other parties that really didn't like Litvinenko and could have used Russian Polonium…

> Might have been FSB, but there were plenty of other parties that really didn't like Litvinenko and could have used Russian Polonium either to blame the FSB or to tell the FSB not to fuck with them, because they had the means to blame them for random hits (or a million other possible reasons)

According to the book 'A Very Expensive Poison' by Luke Harding, the Polonium used in the Litvinenko assassination is only produced in one reactor in the world, located in Ukraine. It would have been almost impossible to obtain without FSB knowledge or collusion, leading investigators to believe that Putin had direct knowledge and/or approval.

Re: Kim Jong-Nam Was Killed by VX Nerve Agent, Malaysians Say

#110

Post by lawless123 »

arjie wrote: post #106
danbruc wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A prophylaxis is aimed at preventing an agent from unfolding its effect, an antidote is aimed at reversing its effects. An antidote can only be used as a prophylaxis if it has no adverse effects in the absence of the effect caused by the agent.

Thank you for your comment. I'm familiar with that. I'm asking about this case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atropine#Side-effects
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