Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#101

Post by sinuage » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:46 AM UTC

rubicon33 wrote: post #55

searealist wrote: post #45

I have a hard time believing HR really behaved the way they are portrayed in that article. They really claimed that if she elected to stay in her current department she should expect to receive a negative review from the boss she rejected for a sexual relationship? This is just too much. And for someone as savvy and with as large an internet presence as the author, I can't imagine she would accept this resolution. Th…

Thank you. The swiftness with which the hammer has fallen on Uber, is disturbing. Yes, at face value, this looks bad for Uber. But, the claims here are serious enough that we really should be holding our judgement before an investigation, or some other evidence surfaces. This does not mean I think her claims are false. In fact, I BELIEVE them to be true, but I withhold my judgment and public criticism until I can be…

Healthy Skepticism is well... healthy, but I think at this point there is enough evidence out there to confirm the story.

Case in point, a quick look at glassdoor reviews seems to confirm the story. (there's even one that says it's "Not Great for Women" - Sep 2016 although it's not as devastating as this article but the info from that and other reviews seem to support what she's saying)

It's disturbing when it seems people are jumping react before all the facts are there, but it seems the story is verifiably true. If there is still doubt, I think the discussion is better served by bringing up specific items than a whole cloth rejection of the story.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#102

Post by mistercow » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:47 AM UTC

thinkloop wrote: post #51

These are allegations by one party against another with zero data either way, why is everyone on the anti-uber bandwagon.

Sooner or later, the truth is going to come out. Fowler knows this. There's no room for ambiguity here: either Uber has broken the law extravagantly, or she's lying. If the latter is true, she will be crucified for it. The defamation suit alone would be monumental.

And again, there's no ambiguity. She says she has extensive records of this behavior. That's not something she can really walk back. In a situation where one person's word is pitted against another's, the most reliable way to buy credibility is precommitment. By writing the article that she wrote, she made a massive precommitment. She will be screwed if Uber takes her to court and she can't back up her claims. Uber, meanwhile, has said "We're looking into it." Precommitment is about cutting off your options. Uber has done the opposite.

So we have one side that just cashed out options for credibility, and one side that wants to wait and see. If you're trying to assess the situation rationally, there's only one correct play here.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#103

Post by rhizome » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:47 AM UTC

csharpminor wrote: post #92

meritt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If HR had actually done their job, Kalanick wouldn't be spending a Sunday night struggling to reattach his unicorn's horn.

HR is just the messenger. This rests squarely on the shoulders of Uber's management. They were informed and refused to act. The buck stops with them. Also, having the number of woman engineers drop from 25% to less than 3% on that team should have been a red flag well in advance of this ever being published.

There's indeed a lot to hang on upper management, but HR has responsibilities delegated to them for a reason. I'm sure heads will roll, but presumably they've been cruising without an HR reboot for years, so a lot of habits and perspectives are going to be entrenched.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#104

Post by aisofteng » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:49 AM UTC

cstejerean wrote: post #98

aisofteng wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wouldn't be the first time such a thing has happened. I'm not implying that's what this is, because I have no verifiable knowledge of the sitauations. I was pointing out a (possibly chance) correlation that should give pause. That is not "crazy". If the alleged events happened to me, I would find it serious enough of an issue that it would not occur to me to advertise my book when writing about it; conflating a mo…

She was not advertising her book. She used her book as an example to substantiate her claim that her transfer was blocked for bullshit reasons. Seems perfectly appropriate to me.

She linked to it in her original blog post.

Edit: I went to the original post to provide a link and she has removed the link. I don't have a screenshot of the old post because it did not occur to me to take one. However, at least one other commenter has mentioned it.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#105

Post by searealist » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:50 AM UTC

sinuage wrote: post #101

rubicon33 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. The swiftness with which the hammer has fallen on Uber, is disturbing. Yes, at face value, this looks bad for Uber. But, the claims here are serious enough that we really should be holding our judgement before an investigation, or some other evidence surfaces. This does not mean I think her claims are false. In fact, I BELIEVE them to be true, but I withhold my judgment and public criticism until I can be…

Healthy Skepticism is well... healthy, but I think at this point there is enough evidence out there to confirm the story. Case in point, a quick look at glassdoor reviews seems to confirm the story. (there's even one that says it's "Not Great for Women" - Sep 2016 although it's not as devastating as this article but the info from that and other reviews seem to support what she's saying) It's disturbing when it seems…

The only thing that review says in reference to women is "Emotionally unintelligent male managers (all the way up to the CEO) make it hard for women to feel heard and valued." This has nothing to do with sexual harassment.

There is also talk of long hours, but it is not clear if the reviewer meant that is a negative specific to women or not.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#106

Post by frinxor » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:52 AM UTC

sinuage wrote: post #101

rubicon33 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. The swiftness with which the hammer has fallen on Uber, is disturbing. Yes, at face value, this looks bad for Uber. But, the claims here are serious enough that we really should be holding our judgement before an investigation, or some other evidence surfaces. This does not mean I think her claims are false. In fact, I BELIEVE them to be true, but I withhold my judgment and public criticism until I can be…

Healthy Skepticism is well... healthy, but I think at this point there is enough evidence out there to confirm the story. Case in point, a quick look at glassdoor reviews seems to confirm the story. (there's even one that says it's "Not Great for Women" - Sep 2016 although it's not as devastating as this article but the info from that and other reviews seem to support what she's saying) It's disturbing when it seems…

How does a glassworks review of 'not great for women' confirm her story? It looks bad, and is LIKELY bad, but come on... Just like rubicon says, no matter how much you'd like to believe, wait for confirmation.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#107

Post by tomlock » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:52 AM UTC

tiglilly329 wrote: post #97

tomlock wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should abandon your throwaway and talk to some of your lady friends in tech about their experiences. See for yourself if their anecdotes build up into something approaching quantitative - and ask them if anything was ever done about their complaints - or if they even felt safe enough to complain to the people they ought to feel safe around.

What's your point? That harassment occurs frequently and is often mishandled? I never disputed that.

Understood. You should get your lady friends in tech to read the comments you posted on a throwaway. Do you think they'll feel safer around you?

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#108

Post by rhizome » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:53 AM UTC

csharpminor wrote: post #88

rdtsc wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I gotta wonder about their general competence. What are the credentials to be an HR person? Here, even if they really wanted to discredit her and protect the company (so assuming they completely were not prepared to take her side, ever) they acted in a very stupid manner it seems. Is there an HR major? Or is it MBA student who never graduate? How does one end up picking a good HR person vs just a friend-o…

HR is subordinate to management. It sounds as though management was unwilling to take action to remove the responsible individual.

I think it's likely they were just "out of sight, out of mind" about HR details; it's not the most exciting part of running a business. They didn't get to call it "Boober" by bragging about new funds in the 401(k) plan.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#109

Post by mistercow » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:53 AM UTC

searealist wrote: post #45

I have a hard time believing HR really behaved the way they are portrayed in that article. They really claimed that if she elected to stay in her current department she should expect to receive a negative review from the boss she rejected for a sexual relationship? This is just too much. And for someone as savvy and with as large an internet presence as the author, I can't imagine she would accept this resolution. Th…

I have a harder time believing that someone would set themselves up to be so royally screwed as she would be if it turned out she was lying. If she were to later claim she "lost" the copies of these emails, or change her story significantly, that would be the time to get skeptical. But people do not generally stake their professional reputations on things lightly.

Re: Uber Investigating Sexual Harassment Claims by Ex-Employee

#110

Post by BinaryIdiot » Mon, Feb 20, 2017, 6:54 AM UTC

thinkloop wrote: post #51

These are allegations by one party against another with zero data either way, why is everyone on the anti-uber bandwagon.

You know what? You're right. But at the same time I can understand everyone jumping to her side of things. Many of us in HN have worked at start-ups where we've seen almost this exact same behavior. I know I have seen something eerily similar.

Ultimately I get the feeling this is going to be one of those tough situations where if the evidence was still on Uber's computers it could have easily been removed by now. So if it was removed and Uber says there is no proof, do we then side with Uber? Or do we stay on her side? There may not be a good way to proof in favor of either party.