Live data from Hacker News

Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

facebook.com

101–110 of 176 posts

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#101
post #72

One simple way to improve the quality of news republished on Facebook (albeit at a possible loss of some revenue) is to pull out the date of publication and clearly indicate to the person sharing how old the article is. Well-meaning friends are constantly posting urgent-sounding stories about events that happened months or years ago because they overlooked the date of publication. For example, I know a good few peopl…

A way I'd prefer: quit letting people share news on facebook. Heck, let's go back to text-only status updates and I can go back to reading what my acquaintances are eating. That would be much more pleasant than today's facebook.

If you have text-only status updates, couldn't someone still post the title and the URL?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#102
post #7

I find this letter to be deeply cynical. There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits. I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori. There are people in this country, and every where in the world, who don't want globalization. And it's not because they have…

This is an incredibly confusing post. > I find this letter to be deeply cynical... I find it deeply cynical that instead it masquerades as a virtuous plan to help all man kind. As a matter of fact, this letter is hopeful, not cynical. It's certainly hoping for something that you don't want, but that's entirely beside the point. No detached native English reader would objectively describe the tone of this piece as "cy…

I have a few things to say about your post, but I thought I'd comment just on one.

Let's recap. OP says:

>> They don't want it for real reasons and, in a Democracy, that should be an acceptable stance. If we're not willing to accept that stance than we're forcing people into a global community that matches our vision for the future, not theirs.

So you say.

> Existence of opposing political wills working publicly in good faith toward their goals (opposing or otherwise) is a foundation of democracy. You're effectively suggesting that someone is anti-democractic because they openly oppose your policy agenda. Which is a deeply flawed argument.

But if his/her agenda is Democracy, then yes, someone who opposes this agenda comes off as anti-democratic no? OP does seem to be in line with the Democratic ideal since autonomy and sovereignty is a big part of democracy, which is in line with your own comment!

So OP is saying "hey, some people oppose this. Democracy is about allowing differing views, so forcing this is not democratic". To which you are saying, "Well, that's flawed, because democracy is about allowing differing views". See where I'm getting at?

Just thought I'd point this out this little oxymoron to you since it seems like you tripped a bit in your logic and confused arguments. Happens to everyone, but worth pointing out so you keep it in mind for the future!

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#103
post #79

It is one of the very few publically shared items on Facebook that I'm allowed to read without an account.

I work at Facebook. Can you provide another example link for something that's "public" but you can't access? Most public content is accessible without an account.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#104
>are we building the world we all want?

the rich are building the world they all want. everyone else is struggling to survive that world. so, no. we aren't building the world "we all want" because many of us want different things, and have different means to gain them. i'll note that facebook isn't intentionally blocking or supporting this dynamic... and i'll also note that they could have answered their own question by looking at their data set. but this is public relations, where facts are slim and the opinion of the actual public doesn't much matter.

>How do we help people build supportive communities that strengthen traditional institutions in a world where membership in these institutions is declining?

non-starter; facebook is anathema to traditional institutions because it localizes power within itself instead of relying on them... and this has been the goal of facebook all along. put differently: honest answers to this question cannot include facebook as part of the solution without actively subverting the "traditional institutions". furthermore, in the US at least, the institutions are hollowed out anyway.

>How do we help people build a safe community that prevents harm, helps during crises and rebuilds afterwards in a world where anyone across the world can affect us?

also a non-starter; facebook is a social network and software platform, not an army of robotic guards. "preventing harm" will be conflated with "enforcing stability" when they are prompted by groups with more power (governments).

>How do we help people build an informed community that exposes us to new ideas and builds common understanding in a world where every person has a voice?

don't let people use facebook unless they have a college degree or higher. you'll see university classes fill suddenly. more seriously: facebook is a filter bubble by design, and cares absolutely nothing about the reach of people's voices... and it's tiring to hear otherwise.

>How do we help people build a civically-engaged community in a world where participation in voting sometimes includes less than half our population?

by doing something that facebook won't do: taking a stand and promoting groups pushing social change forward. they already know that this is a line they won't ever cross. we all know that they won't cross that line. facebook is a large institution, which by default sides with other large established powers rather than the public. i will also note that "civic engagement" is a dogwhistle for the disempowered members of the public doing something to improve their own standing, typically in opposition to (and rarely, in cooperation with) the established powers. they don't even genuinely want to improve civic engagement, because civic engagement leads to them being obsolete.

>How do we help people build an inclusive community that reflects our collective values and common humanity from local to global levels, spanning cultures, nations and regions in a world with few examples of global communities?

what if we don't have common values, and what if we don't want inclusive communities? what if those of us who follow the western liberal tradition want nothing to do with those who live in contradiction to it and despise it? some cultural chasms can't be rectified... and i can definitively say that facebook won't change that.

in summary: leaving the construction of a global community to facebook is a surefire way to make sure that the "global community" is neutered and ripe for profit extraction. i guess this comes off as a very negative post, but come on-- think about who benefits if people worldwide jump on the zuck train and think about things in the way he's encouraging here. does anyone really think that facebook is actually interested in doing anything other than making money?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is this about left or right or the hypocrisy of anyone? Because we have eyes and brains and we use language to describe what's going on. There might be some instances of people who called themselves leftists who opposed something which we're now referring to as a leftist agenda. It's not a perfect black and white classification scheme but the deep link between leftism and globalization is painfully obvious to a…

But the point is that the tables flipped entirely. Go back to 1990's and you'll find GOP senators decrying Rage Against The Machine as communist radicals for their opposition to NAFTA. A big chunk of the GOP is still pro-free-markets. If core parts of what "left" and "right" mean are subject to re-definition every 4 years, maybe the polarized tail is wagging the dog.

No - the tables have not flipped.

There is 'global left/right' and 'local/national left/right' now.

The 'global left' is exemplified by UN.

The 'global right' exemplified by WTO.

Often, the 'global' version of a movement can be in conflict with the 'local' version.

This is seen clearly: 'global leftists' care about migrants - a lot - but immigration can be hurtful to the working class of the host nation. Mass importation unskilled labour = wage suppression, it's just an economic reality. 'Global lefits' might use negative terms such as 'lazy Americans' or whatever - which demonstrates the rift - 'working class' Americans are the 'traditional base' of leftists/labour organizations.

This is most acutely seen in the UK, where the Labour vote has been split - most of UKIP (nationalist) votes came from Labour - who are now more of a 'globalist left' party.

The Tories under May are a more 'traditional right wing' party, whereas the Liberals (i.e. Classical Liberal, which in America would be more akin to 'Libertarian') are kind for the 'pro globalist right wing' party - i.e. trade and business is the most important thing.

'Free Trade' sometimes breaks leftist ideals - because on one hand, it can have directly negative consequences for many workers. On the other hand - it means benefits for the working poor in other nations, and quite a lot of benefits for those who can hold onto their jobs in the host nation (lower prices for goods). Of course, the greatest rewards of globalism to the investing class.

Also - it's usually centre-left activists who care about such issues as 'gentrification'. Well - 'globalization' is a kind of 'gentrification' on a massive scale. The loss of local customs, authentic culture etc. is acute in some places like 'Harlem' - but it's also becoming acute across entire nations - some wealthy, some not.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#107
Copying over my comment from the other thread that sparked some interesting debate:

I find this letter to be deeply cynical. There's a baked in assumption that a global community is a good thing and that the only possible reason to resist it is because you're being left behind by its benefits. I don't think that's true and I certainly don't think it should be assumed a priori. There are people in this country, and every where in the world, who don't want globalization. And it's not because they haven't received enough of the benefits or need to be educated better, they don't want it for real reasons and, in a Democracy, that should be an acceptable stance. If we're not willing to accept that stance than we're forcing people into a global community that matches our vision for the future, not theirs. In other words it's a plot for world domination of one world view over another. I find it deeply cynical that instead it masquerades as a virtuous plan to help all man kind.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. Forced fraternity is not liberty. I want decentralized, local decision making for my community. Globalization of state power takes things in the other direction.

>I want decentralized, local decision making for my community. Globalization of state power takes things in the other direction. I think we both agree that a centralized global hierarchy of power is impractical. But what about a modular decentralized network of local and non local communities across the globe working together in symbiosis?

"But what about a modular decentralized network of local and non local communities across the globe working together in symbiosis?"

Zuck is working against that.

'Sovereign nations, interacting and trading with one another with mutual respect and fraternity' is practically the motto of for example the UKIP party in the UK - but it's denigrated by most globalist types.

Most globalists want more power to the UN, more power to the EU, more power even to at the Federal level of the US, more power to globally governing entities.

They are usually good people, who think that they know better than the common person.

Here is a good example of a voice for staunch globalism: Jean Claude Junker, President of the EU Commission:

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Juncker

You can read quite a lot from his quotes - they are quite authoritarian and in many ways totally anti-democratic.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg: Building Global Community

#110
post #103
post #79

It is one of the very few publically shared items on Facebook that I'm allowed to read without an account.

I work at Facebook. Can you provide another example link for something that's "public" but you can't access? Most public content is accessible without an account.

doesn't the modal "sign up for facebook" that cannot be dismissed take somewhere between 50 and 80% of your screen space? I'm talking of these "public posts" your users chose to share.

Or is this just my large font preference for vision impaired? Either way, it leaves very little room for text, sometimes none at all.

News flash: Dark patterns harm accessability, but you knew that. Good work.

Post reply on HN