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A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

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Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but some fan wasn't going to make it either way. Why should the fan who is willing to pay more money have to miss out, in favour of a fan who is paying less money?

Well, why should the fan who is able to pay less money miss out in favor of the fan who has more? Are people fundamentally more deserving for having more disposable income? The Artist (ie the provider of the 'value') is not making more profit, they have set what they feel their work is worth. Scalpers add no value and simply take. Automation of scalping is bad for everybody involved (edit: except of course the scalpe…

> Well, why should the fan who is able to pay less money miss out in favor of the fan who has more? Are people fundamentally more deserving for having more disposable income?

Yes, that's what money represents in the current society. You might as well ask whether people with higher income are more "deserving" of better houses, schools, cars, holidays, restaurants, airplane seats. I don't know why concert tickets should deserve a different treatment.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#102
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ticket scalping hurts artist exposure by finding an equilibrium point on price alone, where many artists may really want to maximize audience size and not earnings from tickets. Concerts are like promotional events for their brand and many people buy albums, swag, post on social media about the event, and that's all beneficial to the artist. Ticket scalping removes the ability of the artist to maximize attendance (an…

Maximize audience size by renting a large enough place to meet demand at the price you want to sell at.

Bigger venues have different acoustics. Not all music genres are suited to big venues.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#103
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're saying it's humorous that we don't like rich people dropping loads of cash on things that should be fairly available to everyone? I don't see the funny.

I'm saying it's funny how we tend to find excuses to justify and moralize that behavior. The top-level comment does this by explaining why driving up the cost of a commodity by creating scarcity is a good thing because rich people who don't want to wait in line can now cut it, while everyone gets to pay more assuming they can afford the new price. By funny I mean tragic.

What's really funny is they argue against people being voluntarily able to enter in to other kinds of contracts (eg, requiring the name it's sold to match who attends) to do it.

They're not advocating a free market and society, they're advocating a serf market and society.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#104
I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans.

If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one.

I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other expenses (travel and lodging mostly, but also food). And yes, most of those tickets had scalpers operating on them, pricing 2-3x higher than the nominal sale price. Even at 2-3x price, the price of the ticket is a relatively small portion of the total cost of attending.

People without money get screwed out of entertainment? Boo Hoo. How about Healthcare or housing? You know, actual essential things.

Thinking that being a hardcore fan makes you somehow more deserving to attend is entitled child mentality, plain and simple. It's one of those concepts that make you feel good, but in reality no one cares, and certainly not going to cry over 1 fan attending over another.

If you can't afford the auction price of the ticket, sit at home and watch their live youtube videos. It's arguably not even much worse and you won't have to deal with the smelly crowds.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#105
post #102
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maximize audience size by renting a large enough place to meet demand at the price you want to sell at.

Bigger venues have different acoustics. Not all music genres are suited to big venues.

Then do more shows in the same place until demand is met.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#106

Here in Japan it's quite common to have ticket lotteries and ID checks for certain popular/easily oversold artists. Better odds are given to early-bird applicants and fanclub members. Why is that so hard to implement?

Live Nation and its ticket distributor Ticketmaster consistently promote scarcity by diverting the majority of tickets into the hands of resellers like TicketsNow, which is a Ticketmaster subsidiary so they can get the full demand rate in the secondary market. The artist gets a cut of this, it's all a scheme and nobody at Ticketmaster cares about the bots who fight over the tiny amount of released tickets. Artists kn…

Also, doesn't Ticketmaster benefit from the scalping through more transaction fees anyway? Between TicketsNow and the increased transaction volume from scalpers/flippers, seems like TicketMaster can't really lose.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#107

I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…

You're logically and economically correct, but people have a visceral negative emotional reaction to arbitrageurs since they didn't do anything to "earn" their profits. The only way to eliminate scalping would be for the original sellers to raise prices to match the clearing price (perhaps with auctions) but the optics on that are also bad since artists don't like to seem too greedy.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#108
post #8

> The scourge of ticket bots and the immorality of the shady ticket scalpers using them is conventional wisdom I very much disagree. If I am willing to pay the asking price for tickets, I should be able to buy them. If you're offering them so cheaply that I will happily buy all of the tickets then you're offering them too cheap and you can't really complain if I buy them. If it weren't for ticket-scalpers, die-hard f…

>Everyone's a winner

Except the people who badly want to see a band but unfortunately do not work for a trendy startup and therefore cannot afford the tickets in their increasingly gentrified city.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#109

I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…

Look, if the box office said "we're auctioning off all the tickets, there is no set price" then I would be inclined to agree with you. But that's not what happens here. Scalping with bots is someone profiting off of the work of others. It's borderline theft. Moreover, it's already illegal in many states and further widens the chasm between the rich and the poor. I don't understand why you would defend such practice.

Re: A scalper who used bots to buy millions of tickets, now wants to stop them

#110

I'm really surprised to see so many from the HN audience against scalpers, considering how libertarian the site leans. If there's any market where a completely free market approach is applicable and actually desirable, it's this one. I've bought maybe 40-50 tickets for various events (gaming, concerts, sports) over the last 5 years, and 99% of the time, the price of the ticket was negligible next to all the other exp…

>Even at 2-3x price, the price of the ticket is a relatively small portion of the total cost of attending.

This is irrelevant. The fact is that it's 2-3x the cost because someone decided to be greedy and purchase lots of tickets that people would have bought. Imagine if you go to buy a bar of chocolate, and it's $1 as it usually is. Then one day you've found out that the only way to buy it is from the weird guy outside the shop, who has purchased the entire supply of chocolate and is selling them at $3. I would be upset about it. The actual original price it irrelevant, no matter how cheap it is to get it. The fact is that you're making someone pay 3x as much which is frankly horrible behaviour.

>People without money get screwed out of entertainment? Boo Hoo. How about Healthcare or housing? You know, actual essential things.

So you think it's okay for someone to do something bad, so long as it's trivial and not related to one's bare survival?

>Thinking that being a hardcore fan makes you somehow more deserving to attend is entitled child mentality, plain and simple.

I agree. But being so greedy as to purchase thousands of tickets in order to sell them at a significant markup later on is also childishly greedy, moreso in fact than the child who believes he deserves to see something he likes without having to pay 3x the cost beacuse some guy has decided to be greedy.

>If you can't afford the auction price of the ticket, sit at home and watch their live youtube videos.

That's totally fine. But being denied a service because of someone else's greed is extremely ethically and morally questionable in my opinion.

I'm a social anarchist. I don't have any problem if you decide to sell something at whatever price you want. But I maintain that it's abhorrent, greedy, disgusting, horrible, childish and at the least questionable for one to force this practice upon others who would have no problem affording the original product. Whether it's a ticket or a chocolate bar or food or even hospital or housing, it's the same principle, and I fail to see why it does not apply to those but it does apply to tickets.

>It's arguably not even much worse and you won't have to deal with the smelly crowds.

Don't try and undersell something that people would have otherwise wanted in order to make yourself feel better about supporting abhorrent and greedy behaviour please.

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