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Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

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Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#101

Post by amluto »

poizan42 wrote: post #83
nxc18 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That says more about the fact that that implementation pattern is a core part of the NT OS, and the underlying design of the two kernels is so different that just throwing Linux code in the mix would not make sense (in the way that hearing purple doesn't make sense). WSL is a elimination of the Linux user mode programming environment. The fact that that requires implementing Linux kernel functionality is simply an ar…

> The fact that that requires implementing Linux kernel functionality is simply an artifact of the lack of a more modular design (or really any up front design) in Linux. Curiously the recommended syscall mechanism on x86 is by calling __kernel_vsyscall in the vDSO. If everybody did that then you could just make your own loader with your own custom vDSO that could implement the syscalls in userspace. However sometime…

vDSO maintainer here.

> Curiously the recommended syscall mechanism on x86 is by calling __kernel_vsyscall in the vDSO.

There are times when this doesn't work. Syscall resumption and cancellation come to mind. Also, __kernel_vsyscall is a hack to make fast syscalls work on the awful 32-bit x86 architecture, not a nice feature.

> it would have been fantastic if calling through the vDSO had simply been the only documented way of doing a syscall on x86_64

There is no __kernel_vsyscall or similar feature on x86_64.

> we can't even trap that on any x86_64 OS

You can on Linux using seccomp.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#102

Post by adamnemecek »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #80
adamnemecek wrote: post #4

I've been running into the idea of computational graphs a lot recently. It's at the core of Tensorflow (and NN in general) but it also comes up for example in Apple's AVFoundation where all audio processing happens in a graph of audio units. Does anyone know what's the theoretical foundation of computational graphs? EDIT: I've created a wiki page for computational graphs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computational_G…

>> Does anyone know what's the theoretical foundation of computational graphs? Automata can be represented as graphs- that's the main idea. When you look at the typical automaton diagram with states and transitions- that's a graph (with states as vertices and transitions as edges). I think the confusion arises from the fact that, while automata can be represented as graphs, graphs can represent a much broader array o…

> So "computational graph" as I understand it, just stresses the point that what is represented is a unit of computation (a.k.a. an automaton a.k.a. a grammar a.k.a. a language etc. etc.) rather than some other kind of graph.

Exactly. I think that the fact that the nodes represent a unit of computation is enough for it to be different from normal graphs I think.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#103

Post by joshrivers »

ukyrgf wrote: post #91
brilliantcode wrote: post #58

Microsoft of 2017 makes me forget about Microsoft of 1997. It's insane how a shakeup of CEO and new cultural shift can seemingly add another major boost to it's brand. I welcome open source, eventually, I believe that it will eat commercial software, if the right economic incentives are in place. Microsoft may be signaling this to the market.

I started to get this warm fuzzy feeling as well. Then, I experienced a bug in OneDrive and decided to report it. A week later they responded by referring me to a site where users get 7 votes to pick which bugs you want their team to investigate. The warm fuzzies disappeared...

Still a better love story than Radar.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#104

Post by coredog64 »

cookiecaper wrote: post #52
dogma1138 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see MSFT benefiting from open sourcing windows, so likely never.

Sun is a beautiful case study in what happens when you're a little too aggressive about the "openness" mantra. They bet the farm on SPARC and lost. If they had kept pieces of Solaris closer to chest, who knows what would've happened, but they would've at least had one more potentially-viable commercial offering. I assume that Microsoft is not going to be naive enough to do the same. IMO Microsoft's interest in openne…

AIUI, Sun bet on being able to sell stuff (not just SPARC) to FinTech firms. They borrowed money at the height of the bubble, and when the bubble burst, their customer base cut back on hardware purchases. Because they couldn't service that expensive debt, they had to find a buyer.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#106

Post by klibertp »

pjmlp wrote: post #84
WayneBro wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet. Their next strategy is to try and use ARM (again) to shove UWP down your throat. I love Windows but I seriously will not touch UWP until they loosen up the sandbox restrictions so that I can do regular IPC with a win32 desktop app. You can't even send an HTTP request to a little node.js Web server running on your desktop right now. Fuck that. I'm not buying into it.

I love sandboxes, on Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS ,Chrome OS X. One day my GNU/Linux installs will also only run sandboxed applications. I guess you don't use either an iOS or Android device, because you cannot do regular UNIX IPC on them.

> I guess you don't use

I think he was talking about programming the apps, not just using them. From the looks of it (after reading the comments here and nothing more, so excuse me if I'm completely wrong) it may be a real inconvenience from the dev perspective: I can somehow understand the "no 127.0.0.1 communication" policy, but I expect to communicate with a spawned process via stdin/stdout pipes.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#107

Post by dang »

floopidydoopidy wrote: post #17

Although astroturfing doesn't seem to be a problem on HN, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't do it.

Since you've done this repeatedly and ignored our request to stop, we've banned your account.

Actual astroturfing, when it occurs, is an abuse of HN that we crack down hard on. Defending this community against gaming and abuse is a huge priority for us. Any user who thinks they might be seeing it happen on HN should email us right away (hn@ycombinator.com) so we can investigate.

Imaginary astroturfing—the bug that causes some users to be certain that those who disagree with them can only be nefarious shills because otherwise the pure reason of their own point of view would be fully accepted—is also an abuse of HN. This one is orders of magnitude more common, and it is poison. It eats away the heart of civil, substantive discourse, the assumption of good faith on the part of others.

Therefore we ban astroturfers, and we also ban users who accuse others of astroturfing or shilling without evidence. An opposing view does not count as evidence, and playing this card as a rhetorical device in an argument breaks the HN guidelines.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13607640 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#108

Post by rodionos »

crudbug wrote: post #100
nitrogen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old-school AI maybe, fraud detection, social network analysis, recommendation engines, deanonymization, surveillance and tracking...

I am using a time-series db where each metric measurement requires some static context information to be included, e.g. Event 1 happened in Device A at Node B, Location C. These static entities (A, B, C) are perfect for graph vertices. But, when I am persisting the graph on disk - I store all the data statically, No links just columns - the static entities become dimensional data. Is there a better way to this ? Idea…

Not specific to GraphEngine, but you could store all meta-data about the device separate from the time-series itself. The composite metric name (key?) would then include the measurement name and the entity name (device name in this case).

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#110

Post by dang »

whyileft wrote: post #77
floopidydoopidy wrote: post #17

Although astroturfing doesn't seem to be a problem on HN, I'd really appreciate it if you didn't do it.

This shouldn't be downvoted. There is definitely at the minimum Microsoft employee vote brigading at this point. HN needs to start making upvotes, downvotes, and time of vote public.

Accusations of astroturfing or shillage without evidence are a serious breach of civility on HN. Since you've done it before and ignored our request to stop, we've banned your account.

All: both astroturfing and groundless insinuation thereof are against HN's rules. For more, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13610097 upthread.

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