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China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

economist.com

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Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#101

Post by seanmcdirmid »

crdoconnor wrote: post #82
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't use stilts because of property ownership, but because of terrain and traffic. There are hardly any stilts between Beijing and GZ, for example, because it is easier to just tunnel under hills rather than do both. I assume the U.K. is rather flat and you wouldn't use stilts at all.

Incorrect. http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2014/07/10/co... "Laying track on viaducts is often preferred in China to minimize resettlement and the use of fertile land" >There are hardly any stilts between Beijing and GZ I guess land acquisition costs are lower then. I've seen a lot of flat farmland in China with CRH stilts in Western China. Beijing-Tianjin line is pretty much all on stilts.

I've seen a lot of stilts being built along the Yangtze River, but that is hardly flat at all, they have to stilt or go low enough to build a really long tunnel, which isn't viable; it definitely wasn't because they were cutting through a farmer's field! The new freeways follow the same pattern. BJ-GZ is a really long line that goes through a big chunk of china, but it is mostly rural, whereas BJ-TJ is a short jaunt between two abutting cities.

I've never seen stilts in flat terrain before, outside of SH/GZ elevated ring roads. I'm very surprised BJ-TJ is elevated when almost nothing else in urban Beijing is.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#103

Post by joelwilliamson »

sandworm101 wrote: post #91
mtw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. High speed rail networks in France are profitable. Please do some research

I have. I bought tickets and they were very expensive. Im flying vancouver-sf round trip next month for 1/3 the price i paid for london-paris a few years back. Doing the math again today, round trip paris-london on eurostar is 600$ in my money (320bp on eurostar site +fees +conversion to cad, leaving next monday). Vancouver-sf by air can he had for 275$ (corporate account, no visible discount).

I just checked the Eurostar prices. A ticket for London-Paris tomorrow and Paris-London on Wednesday can be had for $247. If you book a month ahead of time, it's below $50 one-way.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#104

Post by [deleted] »

sandworm101 wrote: post #91
mtw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. High speed rail networks in France are profitable. Please do some research

I have. I bought tickets and they were very expensive. Im flying vancouver-sf round trip next month for 1/3 the price i paid for london-paris a few years back. Doing the math again today, round trip paris-london on eurostar is 600$ in my money (320bp on eurostar site +fees +conversion to cad, leaving next monday). Vancouver-sf by air can he had for 275$ (corporate account, no visible discount).

[deleted]

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#105

Post by gsnedders »

sandworm101 wrote: post #91
mtw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. High speed rail networks in France are profitable. Please do some research

I have. I bought tickets and they were very expensive. Im flying vancouver-sf round trip next month for 1/3 the price i paid for london-paris a few years back. Doing the math again today, round trip paris-london on eurostar is 600$ in my money (320bp on eurostar site +fees +conversion to cad, leaving next monday). Vancouver-sf by air can he had for 275$ (corporate account, no visible discount).

If the Eurostar were typically that expensive, then its competition (both aviation and coaches/ferries) would be absolutely crushing it in the market, and they aren't, which suggests that that is unusual.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#106

Post by [deleted] »

nacc wrote: post #99
neolefty wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have ridden those trains (spent 2011-2016 in China), and they're pretty great, but they're hard to justify economically: > The overall bill is already high. China Railway Corporation, the state-owned operator of the train system, has debts of more than 4trn yuan, equal to about 6% of GDP. Strains were evident last year when China Railway Materials, an equipment-maker, was forced to restructure part of its debts. Si…

It's a very fine line to walk though: too much profit, people hate it (it's taking money from them), run at a loss, people hate it (it's a waste of tax money). But since it is built and owned by the government, the economical benefit is also in the equation other than operation profit. A province would welcome the bullet train network even if it has to pay, if it attracts a capital influx to the province. This is usu…

[deleted]

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#107

Post by FabHK »

sandworm101 wrote: post #86
nacc wrote: post #78

As someone who grew in China, I just want to point out that besides the engineering, it is a political wonder as well. Before the bullet train network was built, China already has an extensive railway network. The first step is to run the bullet train on traditional railways, with a peak speed of 180km/h. People think it's great. No objections. But to raise the speed further, a new network has to be built, almost sid…

But what percentage of the population actually uses a bullet train in a given week/month/year? (Not trips/population, the percentage of people who take one or more journies in a given timeframe.) Is this just a service for the urban elite? Or do farmers also use them? The 747 and like jets made air travel affordable and now air travel is cheaper than by boat/rail over long distances (for people, taking into account f…

There can be little doubt that, in terms of environmental impact per passenger kilometre:

bus and train better than car better than air plane.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es4003718

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#108

Post by brilliantcode »

chabuduo is the tradition of cutting corners long formed as the basis for china's fast economic growth. you can build the largest and the biggest infrastructures in the world as fast as possible but it won't be the longest lasting structure which NOT what current day china is about.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#109

Post by robotresearcher »

aminok wrote: post #43
mseebach wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am left with a feeling of awe at China's development, and frustration at the UK's stagnancy. While the UK does feel particularly stagnated on several fronts, I'm not sure abandoning the rule of law, protection of private property, labour protections, at least an attempt at the appearance of corruption-free tenders, high safety standards and the principle that people who are affected should be consulted is worthy…

> I'm not sure abandoning the rule of law, protection of private property, labour protections, at least an attempt at the appearance of corruption-free tenders, high safety standards and the principle that people who are affected should be consulted is worthy of much awe. Two points: 1. The income tax that pays for the UK's lavish welfare system violates private property (and privacy) rights on a massive scale. It ju…

All property and privacy rights are societal norms in the first place. Society isn't violating any natural rights by taxing you. On the contrary, modern society actively protects you from having all your stuff taken by anyone strong enough to take it.

Re: China has built the world’s largest bullet-train network

#110

Post by brohee »

sandworm101 wrote: post #91
mtw wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. High speed rail networks in France are profitable. Please do some research

I have. I bought tickets and they were very expensive. Im flying vancouver-sf round trip next month for 1/3 the price i paid for london-paris a few years back. Doing the math again today, round trip paris-london on eurostar is 600$ in my money (320bp on eurostar site +fees +conversion to cad, leaving next monday). Vancouver-sf by air can he had for 275$ (corporate account, no visible discount).

The airport in London and Paris aren't very convenient if you actually have to go to the city, and you need to add transportation costs to and from the city on both sides. Eurostar takes you to locations where people actually want to be.

AS for your 600 euros for a ticket, it's likely a last minute bought one at the most expensive time, it goes as low as 39 euros for a single, most people will pay under 300 for the round trip I guess...

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