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Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

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Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#101

Post by MaxfordAndSons »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #78
openasocket wrote: post #29

The most absurd thing I read on here was that they were still subjected to the draft . So that Japanese couldn't be trusted to live in the United States without armed guards, but we can totally give them guns and send them off to fight the enemy?!

They were disallowed from fighting in the Pacific theatre, so they all fought in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(Unite... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Inouye#Medal_of_Honor_c...

Interesting to note, this went both ways: my grandfather was a naturalized German immigrant, and was sent to the Pacific when drafted because he was disallowed from fighting in Europe.

But of course, for some reason, German Americans weren't interned...

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#103

Post by AnimalMuppet »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #89
Turing_Machine wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Communists of various stripes murdered somewhere around 100 million people in the last century. What, exactly, counts as "overly zealous" in that context?

Counter-examples abound: the US actively suppressed democracy in Latin America and elsewhere when it didn't suit American business interests, hence Guatemala. Likewise, a great number of deaths at the hand of Communist leaders were due to utter incompetence and mismanagement, such as in China's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward. My rule of thumb is that it's basically a bad thing when somebody dies who shoul…

> My rule of thumb is that it's basically a bad thing when somebody dies who shouldn't have (if people were fair and compassionate).

OK. Then it's a worse thing when more people die who shouldn't have, right?

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#104

Post by pessimizer »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #96
hkt wrote: post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

> It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else. No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

That proves true the myth of our moral superiority to the Nazi regime, but not the myth of our moral superiority.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#105

Post by anexprogrammer »

hornbaker wrote: post #20

Most of them were Japanese Americans, born in America. One wonders why German Americans weren't given similar treatment.

You should search FDR's views on Japanese and Jewish immigration and his writings in the 1920's and later. It should make it fairly clear, and reveal his views of Jewish immigration and hence why very few German refugees were accepted. Even during the war it's been revealed he had negative views of Jews and Asians.

The picture of FDR making an uncharacteristic mistake is part of the whitewash.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#106

Post by bildung »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #96
hkt wrote: post #91

Just another example of the extreme moral ambiguity of the West. We regularly ignore our own standards around giving people a fair trial when it suits the executive of the day or when some stupid condition applies ("race" in this case, geography and citizenship for eg Guantanamo bay). Not to mention "strategic" alliances with dictators down the years that have usually proven to be murderous. It is sad to think that t…

> It is sad to think that the myth of our moral superiority has never been anything else. No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

> No, it's real, just not as real as we like to think. Between "imprison people of Japanese ancestry for the rest of the war, then free them" and "imprison people of Jewish ancestry, then kill them", there is a real moral difference. They are both wrong, but they are not equal.

Of course, but Germany belongs to the "West", too. I think GP alluded to e.g. human rights in China.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#107

Post by Domenic_S »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #57
evan_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of already is happening in the US right now in the form of "Family detention centers" intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation. If Trump's administration seriously plans on "rounding up" millions of people for deportation, they'll have to be lodged somewhere while they are tried (assuming they're granted trials, who knows anymore) and travel arrangements are made. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/…

Strange how enforcing borders began to be seen as controversial. The explanation that makes the most sense to me is, some people see free movement across borders as a human right, while others view a country as their home, and so should have the right to decide who to let in.

I am surprised by the same thing. We have a legal process for crossing those borders, and if you circumvent that process you are a criminal. How is that controversial?

Separately, if you believe the process is bad, or borders should be open, or whatever -- by all means, fight for that using the frameworks we have.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#108

Post by apayan »

DarkKomunalec wrote: post #57
evan_ wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of already is happening in the US right now in the form of "Family detention centers" intended to detain non-citizens slated for deportation. If Trump's administration seriously plans on "rounding up" millions of people for deportation, they'll have to be lodged somewhere while they are tried (assuming they're granted trials, who knows anymore) and travel arrangements are made. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/…

Strange how enforcing borders began to be seen as controversial. The explanation that makes the most sense to me is, some people see free movement across borders as a human right, while others view a country as their home, and so should have the right to decide who to let in.

From an economics point of view, we should allow the free movement of labor (people) because we already allow the free movement of capital (money) across borders. If my understanding is correct, this is one of the pillars of the European Union.

However, I think looking at it as a basic human right is more appropriate. Restricting people crossing borders is simply institutional racism. Countries are granting permission to enter/not enter based on the person's race. If this were any other context, people would be screaming racism. But because it's become so typical over the past 150 years, nobody calls it for what it is anymore.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#109

Post by SerLava »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #44
mgkimsal wrote: post #5

"The very fact that no sabotage has taken place to date is a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken." THAT is disturbing "logic".

There was the Niihau Incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niihau_incident where Hawaiians of Japanese descent helped a crashed Japanese pilot. But then ended up killing the pilot.

I'm pretty sure 2 native Hawaiians killed the pilot. The husband and wife. The Japanese locals ran off.

Re: Censored Photographs of FDR’s Japanese Concentration Camps

#110

Post by turar »

superbaconman wrote: post #93
turar wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because former are inhuman and latter a human? The most jarring part, of course, is that most of "illegal aliens" are rural Mexicans of Native American heritage, being detained in states like Arizona, Texas, and New Mexico, on land belonging to their country not too long ago, and to their ancestors for centuries.

I'm not sure that's a completely accurate view. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo Mexicans in those annexed areas had the choice of relocating to within Mexico's new boundaries or receiving American citizenship with full civil rights. Over 90% chose to become U.S. citizens.

Ukrainians who lived in Crimea got full Russian citizenship too, but I'm not sure if that makes it fair and a done deal for the rest of the Ukrainians.

But I thought my other point was more important. Most Americans are newcomers to the Americas, a few generations tops. Most Mexicans are not, and nobody really asked them before erecting new borders on their lands.

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