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AngelList acquires Product Hunt

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Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#101

Post by AndrewKemendo »

rl3 wrote: post #85
pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

I recall a podcast interview Ryan Hoover gave some time ago, where he said (if I'm recalling this correctly) that he wouldn't consider offers to sell under $100M, and his goal was 1B or greater. At the time it sounded perfectly reasonable, though he since took the company in a direction that lead to today. The writing on the wall has been evident since at least a year ago. > ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming a…

I recall a podcast interview Ryan Hoover gave some time ago, where he said (if I'm recalling this correctly) that he wouldn't consider offers to sell under $100M, and his goal was 1B or greater.

Even if you don't believe this, unquestionably you have to say it in order to get venture money.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#102

Post by telemele »

Cbeck527 wrote: post #56
cocktailpeanuts wrote: post #16

As an early fan of ProductHunt I became saddened to watch their community get diluted and become more of a place for "growth hackers" to hang out than people who actually make things. But I also realize this was because they raised tons of money and was under heavy pressure to get traction at any cost. So I think this can be a good news, now that they can just let go and focus on the startup community instead of arti…

I agree- I stopped going back after I realized it was a homogeneous group (read: white dudes connected to VCs) patting each other on the back for releasing half-baked MVPs. I was really turned-off by that. That said, I think it's slowly changing for the better (rigging allegations aside) since I last took a look a year or so ago. I received a small amount of traction after submitting a stupid iMessage sticker pack I…

"white dudes connected to VCs"

It's not about race. It's about class. The "connected" part is what matters, not the "white dude" part.

Your average 99%er white dude does not get funded in Silicon Valley. He gets asked where he "summers" and then walks out confused.

What matters in Silicon Valley is being wealthy and having attended the right school. Being connected matters more than anything.

The only thing that makes it somewhat meritocratic is that real success is undeniable and even unconnected people can find ways to succeed without help.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#103

Post by exogeny »

Why are we applauding Ryan again?

This is a saving face bailout from one of their own investors and a particularly embarrassing one at that given his statements of "I wouldn't consider anything under $100mm" and the pedigree of his investors.

They raised a shit ton of money and built nothing. No real technology, no significant additions to their platform, no development of community. And now the result is an all-stock acquihire from AL, which will amount of a purchase of their users and a one year rental of the same engineers and team that failed to build anything worthwhile.

Raising money at a $22m val from A16Z and selling for less than that - all stock no less - is a failure, and we need to stop lauding it as if it's somehow notable or impressive to take money and waste it.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#104

Post by gkoberger »

stonesvsglass wrote: post #73

svskeptic 1 hour ago [-] 'Experiment' with no conceivable way of monetization gets 'investment' for some behind-the-scenes, non-investment reasons. Bros funding Bros, and then bro acquiring bro when the first-bro has blown through 7.1M. Its the Silicon Valley version of nepotism. Its all play money, but is only available if you are in the circle. Now that you have an exit to your name, next stop, VC partner. And then…

This comment saddens me.

Ryan may be "in the circle" now, but it's not like he had a rich VC uncle. It's not nepotism; he had no connections when he started out. Product Hunt didn't succeed because he's "in the circle", he's "in the circle" because Product Hunt succeeded.

Ryan is one of the nicest, most genuine person I've met, and he worked hard to get where he is. He built a great team and a product that people love. My company is where it is in large part to PH, and I'm thankful they exist.

(More: https://medium.com/@rrhoover/from-rejection-to-product-hunt-...)

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#105

Post by exogeny »

wwalser wrote: post #31
apadmarao wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone explain why this is a reasonable ballpark price? The site is successful, and provides real value to the apps being hunted and the users that discover the apps - but the acquisition price is in acquihire territory.

The price is going to be some multiple on their revenue, I'd guess somewhere in the 4-6x range. $20MM is enough to get investors ($7MM invested) off your back and let the acquisition go forward and there is plenty of opportunity for back-end deals where key players have an earn out not represented by the acquisition price.

It's absurd that you think PH was doing anywhere close to that revenue.

The sale price to me is baffling, even if it was stock. You're not buying revenue, you're not buying valuable technology IP, and you're sure as hell not buying a world-class team that innovated and built some rocketship product.

So how do you explain it? Maybe the fact that it was bought by one of their investors is a start..

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#106

Post by shubhamjain »

pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

> that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meeting

sigh. I hope one day people would stop being so cocksure around an industry that has always proven otherwise. I mean, yes, SV does have a slew of absurd valuations based on non-existent business models but doesn't the past success of some of these ventures imply that it can actually work? And all those obvious facts are just "hindsight bias" at work?

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#107

Post by avip »

pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

> I guess it's probably not outright fraud

"Once you eliminate the impossible..."

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#108

Post by subpixel »

sgrove wrote: post #76
L_Rahman wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That this is the top comment on this post gives me a lot of faith in this community. The general tone here can at times feel like an uncritical adoration of the valley ecosystem. I'm glad that some of us react differently.

Rather than insight, the post you're replying to shows a lack of imagination. Just off the top of my head, I ask myself how much revenue TechCrunch pulls in, and what it originally started as - and I can see a path for PH to become a 'real' (as in meaningful, sustainable revenue) company. Just because it isn't full of whizbang tech doesn't mean it can't make plenty of money and be valuable to other properties. And th…

Possibility and strategy are totally different animals. The fact is it is really hard to monetize a directory of things when you are not a party to the transaction.

The not-sexy model of charging businesses for exposure and leads works (see http://www.capterra.com/) but is probably not nearly rich enough to satisfy Product Hunt's VCs.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#109

Post by exogeny »

gkoberger wrote: post #104
stonesvsglass wrote: post #73

svskeptic 1 hour ago [-] 'Experiment' with no conceivable way of monetization gets 'investment' for some behind-the-scenes, non-investment reasons. Bros funding Bros, and then bro acquiring bro when the first-bro has blown through 7.1M. Its the Silicon Valley version of nepotism. Its all play money, but is only available if you are in the circle. Now that you have an exit to your name, next stop, VC partner. And then…

This comment saddens me. Ryan may be "in the circle" now, but it's not like he had a rich VC uncle. It's not nepotism; he had no connections when he started out. Product Hunt didn't succeed because he's "in the circle", he's "in the circle" because Product Hunt succeeded. Ryan is one of the nicest, most genuine person I've met, and he worked hard to get where he is. He built a great team and a product that people lov…

His personal characteristics are irrelevant to the economics; he raised money from A-list VCs and failed to do anything notable with it, resulting in a bailout from one of his existing investors and a marginally better employment situation for his staff.

Nice guy? Fuck you, go home and play with your kids. You lose that excuse when you raise a Series A.

Re: AngelList acquires Product Hunt

#110

Post by lowglow »

pdeuchler wrote: post #64

This smells fishy to me. ProductHunt had no hope of ever becoming an actual business with realized monetization, it was a glorified marketing tool built by SV insiders to sell the ventures of their friends, colleagues, and investors. Slimy, but I guess not illegal. I start to draw the line though, when PH raises millions of dollars on XX million valuations (that anyone could easily see they had no chance of ever meet…

I previously built the community sites Techendo, MakerSpace, and the now defunct SchoolYard. I love building community. I also love tech, and I owe a lot to what this community has done for me. It's been there when I was alone, when I needed help, and when I wanted brilliant, likeminded individuals to collaborate with. I want to help make the tech scene better through creating a stronger community of people who want to inspire and help one another.

I want to create something with a real lifespan that pays forward everything everyone has ever done for me. I want to amplify all that is good and right with tech and the community that dug this loner outcast kid out of a very non tech- friendly area, helped him find something he could love, and gave him hope that he could build something beautiful.

If you want to help, check out what we're working on over at Baqqer[0]. Give me feedback about what you love/hate so we can build a strong community. I'm not interested in selling out, or colluding to drive any one particular message/theme/group. Tech can be better than this, and should strive to that end, and we should all support independent endeavors to make this as fun and fair for everyone.

[0] https://baqqer.com/

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