Live data from Hacker News

Let's Colonize Titan

blogs.scientificamerican.com

101–110 of 508 posts

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#101
post #12

They almost had me until ... On the surface, vast quantities of hydrocarbons in solid and liquid form lie ready to be used for energy. Although the atmosphere lacks oxygen, water ice just below the surface could be used to provide oxygen for breathing and to combust hydrocarbons as fuel. Riiiight. And you're going to get the power to electrolytically split that water into hydrogen and oxygen where, exactly? (Whoever…

> I'm just a science fiction writer

Did you write anything we may have heard about?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a surface temperature of −179.5 °C isn't enough to stop someone, logic never will.

“There's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.” So remember your mittens, people.

How do you protect your eyes?

Serious question.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#103
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elon Musk's ticket to Mars will be less meaningful (if we take the word 'colonization' seriously) unless somebody can stick several thousand people into a hermetic sealed box and they are still alive and thriving after 10 years. I've been disappointed with the lack of progress in closed loop systems to date. There was Biosphere 2, a great ambitious start. Then a few years ago there was Kamen's Slingshot (outcome unkn…

a magic box which would reliably and cheaply convert black/gray water to high quality drinking water and turn poop and organics into energy bricks to eliminate sewage plants and septic tanks seems like a technology we should have invented a long time ago. We have invented such a "magic box" -- but it's large-scale: that's what municipal sewage farms mostly do (modulo the final step of turning poop into energy bricks:…

I still want my magic box.

Here is why:

- Get rid of water and sewer pipes.

That would be huge. Together with passive house technology each and every house in a city, town or countryside would be 'off grid'. That kind of independence would make our infrastructure much less fragile. Building downwards (a recent topic) will be easier.

- Our magic box is an isolation point for dangerous and toxic substances.

That will prevent every household from contributing toxicity to the surrounding environment. Adaptions to new forms of waste become possible at source.

If toxic elements can be compacted and stored, useful compounds/elements derived, and some used for energy, then in the future we won't need pipes anymore than we needed pneumatic tubes for sending messages/parcels once we developed automotive transport. The self driving bots will simply visit periodically for a new cargo to be delivered as industrial inputs. Since the magic box performs some level of element/compound sorting there is probably a market where your waste is automatically profiled and sold. It pays for at least part of its own operation.

Last but not least many countries have no ability to construct decent infrastructure for political reasons. The magic box solves that problem in a way that scales with population.

tldr; Back to the future, since 'night soil' historically was a commodity collected from each household.

> The ISS toilet that keeps malfunctioning is the American one, no? Because I seem to recall the USSR cracking the urine-to-drinking-water problem on Mir a couple of decades ago.

Yes. Calcium from astronaut bones (another serious issue) was clogging up the system at a much higher rate than on the terrestrial surface.

I don't know how the Russians solved it but I sometimes think with Americans Business acumen and Russian Science there would be very little we couldn't get accomplished. I'm sure you've heard of Russian phage technology for medical treatment. Cures for alcoholism.

One of the things that is fascinating about the Cold War is how we saw Science developing differently. That is something that should trouble the thoughts of more people.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#104
post #22
post #3

> On Earth, we are shielded from GCRs by water in the atmosphere. But it takes two meters of water to block half of the GCRs present in unprotected space. Practically, a Moon or Mars settlement would have to be built underground to be safe from this > Underground shelter is hard to build and not flexible or easy to expand. Settlers would need enormous excavations for room to supply all their needs for food, manufactu…

Elon views Mars colonization not as a way to solve lack of habitation space in Earth, but as an off-premises security backup should something terrible happen on Earth.

Off topic, sorry; but why do you use his first name only here? Normally we would refer to minor public figures like him as 'Elon Musk' or just 'Musk'. Using someone's first name is reserved for personal friends. I have also seen this with Linus Torvalds, for example, and Linux aficionados. It seems like there is an exception for some people, perhaps it just has to do with popularity within a segment of the population, in the same manner as pop stars become mononymic to the general public?

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#105
post #34
post #32

So, the argument is let's not go to Mars because we'd have to deal with cosmic rays. Instead, let's go to Titan, which has an atmosphere, but is ridiculously cold and rains methane. Also, we can't go there because it's nearly thirty times the distance. Plus we'd still have to deal with cosmic rays along the way. I'm not convinced.

Yup. Frankly, if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars. Martian gravity is also closer to Earth's, so Mars still seems like the better fit in the immediate term.

> if you can solve the cosmic ray problem for the journey to Titan, you also just solved it for colonizing Mars.

Not necessarily, if the solution involves "go faster to reduce exposure". Going faster seems a lot more feasible than creating the appropriate protection.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#106
I think that, before colonizing other planets, we should start by realizing that Earth can easily sustain human kind for the foreseeable future, given some pretty modest tweaks to our way of life (compared to "going multi-planetary" that is). If we start valuing quality over novelty, stop eating animal-based foods and re-organize to live closer to where we work, we can stop the consumption and that is taxing our ecosystem and cut energy use to manageable levels. If we re-distribute our wealth, population growth will subside. If we put pressure on our rulers, they will work to eliminate the nuclear stockpiles. There are simple solutions to most of our issues. Once we have solved them, maybe we can start thinking about spreading our species to other places.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#107
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“There's no such thing as bad weather, only unsuitable clothing.” So remember your mittens, people.

How do you protect your eyes? Serious question.

Goggles work remarkably well down to -100, so pushing that form of technology further doesn't seem too impossible, especially if you add active heating.

Look at how they protect people from the weather in Antarctica, and you'll see the prototypes which could be expanded upon to survive even colder weather.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#108
post #57

Alright, so currently we can't even predict how bad osteoporosis becomes after a flight to Mars (will astronauts break their hips on the first step out of landing module?), what would radiation exposure outside Earth's magnetosphere do to our bodies, yet we should hurry up to Titan. Currently even human space flight to Mars is a pipe dream, our practical knowledge constructing vehicles capable of reaching Moon and su…

Osteoporosis can be easily solved, just exercise on the plane. That is one of the least pressing problems in my opinion.

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#109

If you really want to read some interesting and literary valuable sci-fi about Titan, then read Vonnegut's "The Sirens of Titan". :) https://www.amazon.com/Sirens-Titan-Novel-Kurt-Vonnegut/dp/0...

Another sci-fi novel about a manned mission to Titan is Stephen Baxter's Titan. It's somewhat depressing though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(Baxter_novel)

Re: Let's Colonize Titan

#110

This is exceedingly silly. Saturn's magnetosphere concentrates radiation primarily on Enceladus, Dione, and surprise surprise: Titan. The atmosphere doesn't mean much when you're under the cosmic equivalent of a magnifying glass.

Mind pointing at some research on the intensity and impact of the lensing action? My googling is failing me.

Attempting to leave the earth at all is exceedingly silly. The only thing more silly is not taking any action to ensure that humanity continues beyond Earth.

Post reply on HN