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Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

jamielittle.org

101–110 of 167 posts

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most manufacturing, you have a prototype hall or floor where you have somewhat more general purpose/flexible machines with a lot of manual intervention to make small quantities of prototypes, and factories with automated machines set up to make the exact parts you need for your full production. This was always my experience in electronics - you, as the development engineer, set up small-scale production (going fro…

Thank you for your sincere and informed response. I understand that EEs create countless prototypes over the course of the development of a product, and that development PCBs need not (especially for debugging purposes) bear any physical resemblance to the finished product. What is impressive to me is that Toshiba could: Redesign and test a PCB Set up a manufacturing process for pick and place etc Create an injection…

You seem to want answers at a level that only the engineers at Fujitsu (not Toshiba, according to the OP) can provide. I can comment on some of the specific questions, but obviously I don't know what went on at Fujistsu.

1) The final development PCBs (the engineering validation articles) are actually identical to the production PCBs. Your final EV revision becomes revision 0 in production; only the manufacturing method changes. So the prototype floor definitely has the ability to make production-quality PCBs.

2) The design change may or may not be complicated. Adding a port typically refers to a port already supported by the chipset; so you add a ribbon connector for it and change the layout only.

3) You generally wouldn't have full pick-and-place automation for making prototypes. There are manual tools (sort of semi-automated) for making a few PCBs. A large company is making prototype PCBs all the time. They know how to do it, and they don't stop manufacturing for it.

4) For the case, the easiest would be to rework an existing case (add a slot). Creating custom injection molds is kind of a big deal. Then again, if Fujitsu does that in house, maybe not that big. Don't know.

5) The expense would not involve a cash outlay, but it would definitely involve diverting engineering, manufacturing and sales resources to even communicate and deliver this whole thing, let alone make it. The engineers may have been pulled off something, or may have been waiting for work; business hasn't been that great for most manufacturers, if you haven't noticed. No, I don't know how Fujitsu accounts for this or why they made the decision to go ahead. I am not a manager at Fujitsu. I can tell you that most companies are very loathe to let prototypes and one-offs to leave their hands at all. So it's definitely impressive on Fujitsu's part that they would go to that length.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#104
post #69

I bought a Toshiba Libretto L1 back in 2001 via the Internet (using translation services) and had it shipped to Germany. It was a fantastic form factor: A super wide 10" 1280x600 display (143dpi) which was so wide that it left enough room for a decent keyboard. The CPU was a Transmeta Crusoe 600Mhz which was, unfortunately, the bottleneck of the system. One other highlight I remember about this machine: Despite not h…

I've got a few Libretto's kicking around, they are fantastic machines, full pentium class UMPC's I've also got a GPRS modem for my 100CT and it makes a nice portable IRC machine. http://i.imgur.com/IUp4U7p.jpg http://i.imgur.com/SuMjceM.jpg

I still have my Libretto 30, which was right on the bottom edge of usable performance with its 486-class processor and 8MB RAM. I remember being able to play MP3s - but only with the Fraunhofer codec, not WinAMP, and I eventually lost the PCMCIA sound card. It also ran Opera quite nicely. Eventually I installed Redhat.

Still the best "touchpoint" interface I've ever used, since you worked it with your thumb rather than an extended index finger. And the keyboard is just adorable. The whole thing fit in a pocket if you had very large pockets.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#105
post #92

I bought a Sony VAIO MultiFlip 13A for my wife because she loves Sony's design and she wanted a touchscreen, so we bought the basic model with an SSD. a) of a 128GB SSD, only 90GB was left after Sony took wat they thought was necessary b) the fan was incredibly noisy, it would crash randomly and would eventually die and take the notebook with it c) when put in a less performant mode, it's really less performant and s…

> a) of a 128GB SSD, only 90GB was left after Sony took wat they thought was necessary

> e) it still ran Windows

Your "e" item indicates that it was not Sony who took 90G of the 128G SSD, but rather it was Microsoft who took 70% of the drive space.

Lay the blame where it belongs, on Microsoft, they created an OS that consumes 90G of disk space. Sony did not create mswin, Sony just installed it because it is what most of their target market believes they want pre-installed.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#106
post #92

I bought a Sony VAIO MultiFlip 13A for my wife because she loves Sony's design and she wanted a touchscreen, so we bought the basic model with an SSD. a) of a 128GB SSD, only 90GB was left after Sony took wat they thought was necessary b) the fan was incredibly noisy, it would crash randomly and would eventually die and take the notebook with it c) when put in a less performant mode, it's really less performant and s…

VAIO were always beautiful garbage. Toshiba, on the other hand, were amazing, both in the regular size and the tiny Librettos.

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how is/was Fujitsu's laptop manufacturing tailored toward flexibility? I want the details. If all you can do is passive aggressively repeat vague ideas that were printed in mainstream management and manufacturing texts decades ago, don't respond at all. Nobody cares about or wants your input.

And you think that someone from Fujitsu (where it's 8 in the evening, BTW) is going to jump in here and explain their factory layout to you, because you've put your foot down? The best general answer you are going to get is "They made it using whatever process they used to make prototypes. Probably". You want names, ranks, and serial numbers - try writing to Fujitsu. Preferably while being more polite.

So in other words, you have nothing useful to contribute, but wikiable factoids.

Don't fucking respond. It would be better for everyone involved if the thread died, than if I wasted my time trying to cajole information out of people that clearly know no more than I do.

This entire thread was me taking a shot in the dark to see if any experienced EEs/industrial engineers/etc. had any interesting insight to give on the subject. Stroking your dick at your amateur understanding of manufacturing processes serves no-one but yourself.

I understand this is a hard impulse for people like you to overcome, but you don't have to respond to every post you see. Next time, try shutting the fuck up when someone asks a question that you can't respond to. I don't know everything, and I don't pretend to know everything, so I don't condescend towards people unless I know I have a world-class understanding of a topic.

I would rather have my score at -50 and be forced to create another account, than argue with people that have NOTHING to contribute but want to give me shit for asking questions that their pea brains aren't equipped to answer.

EDIT: Wish I could have had a real conversation with you on a site where that isn't fucking impossible due to "rate restrictions" for wrongthinkers. I really thought we could have gotten along, even after your second shithead reply that I tried to draw something constructive out of.

EDIT EDIT: Who are you voting for, wannabee EE?

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had Fujitsu laptops from beginning of the 2000s until around 2009; the quality and support were amazing. You paid for it but man these things were good. Panasonic makes great laptops as well but these days it really does not warrent the high pricetag...

I'd buy another Fujitsu if they had any current models with displays that are up to date. Seems someone there thinks that anyone who is using a portable doesn't need a display taller than 768 (or some other absurdly low number of) pixels.

Yes, for Fuljitsu that is a big reason; Panasonic has nice displays but they have insane prices. I was checking one of those (these [0] I think) in Tokyo and they are really nice; insanely long battery life, high res and generally very well built. But crazy prices.

[0] http://panasonic.jp/pc/products/sz6e/

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#109
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not always. The Sony Vaio was attractive enough back in its day that Steve Jobs offered Sony to run Mac OS on them (which they declined).

Had to look this up because I had no clue. > Most of Sony's executives spends their winter vacation in Hawaii and play golf after celebrating new year. In one of those new year golf competitions back in 2001, " Steve Jobs and another Apple executive were waiting for us at the end of golf course holding VAIO running Mac OS" recalls Ando.[President of Sony at the time] > Ando liked Apple. He always felt Mac and VAIO we…

A couple of things about these anecdotes to give some context:

Steve Jobs used a Thinkpad (a 560E I believe) running OPENSTEP for quite a long time after taking over Apple, because of his objections to using what he considered to be the primitive MacOS 8/9 OS. So Jobs had no problems with using non-Apple hardware.

The Titanium Powerbook and the iBook G3 Snow were already in the production pipeline when Steve Jobs met with the President of Sony, so aesthetics probably weren't the reason for trying to partner with Sony, perhaps Jobs may have already concerned about the PowerPC Alliance's ability to produce mobile processors and wanted an x86 partner to help pivot Apple away.

When Sony's president was shown a Vaio running "MacOS" what it was running was the preliminary build of Cheetah, MacOS X 10.0[1] without either the Blue Box (the classic Mac emulator) [2] or Rosetta [3] the "dynamic binary translator" (which didn't come out until 2006).

Cheetah was pretty exciting to us NeXT junkies but if it was running on x86, then it was quite limited in the amount of "Mac" software available for it, most everything that didn't start on OPENSTEP would have needed a lot of work to be recompiled and a lot of what would eventually be ported to Carbon would never have made the transition.

So it's understandable that the VAIO team wondered if it was worth it, since there was still a lot of uncertainty about Apple's ability to pull off the transition to Mac OS X.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X_10.0

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_macOS_components#Class...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosetta_(software)

Re: Whatever happened to Japanese laptops?

#110
post #92

I bought a Sony VAIO MultiFlip 13A for my wife because she loves Sony's design and she wanted a touchscreen, so we bought the basic model with an SSD. a) of a 128GB SSD, only 90GB was left after Sony took wat they thought was necessary b) the fan was incredibly noisy, it would crash randomly and would eventually die and take the notebook with it c) when put in a less performant mode, it's really less performant and s…

Your disappointments are not reflective of the Japanese industry. I can criticise Japan a lot, but honestly your complaints are only about Sony.

Sony was floating in the bowl during the mid-80s and becoming a content producer was what flushed them into the sewer.

The quality, innovation, engineering and thoughtfulness that Sony Electronics worked so hard to build their reputation on did not disappear overnight, but it is all gone now.

Today, Sony Electronics is a junk factory and a remarketer of junk. Your life will be better if you simply avoid anything with a Sony nameplate or that incorporates Sony components.

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