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It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

washingtonpost.com

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Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#101

Post by coliveira »

pastProlog wrote: post #85

Maduro was elected president. There's no vote upcoming, just yet another recall referendum, this one which failed to get going in the courts. Honduras on the other hand had an elected president. Obama bankrolled his generals, who overthrew him in a coup in 2009, and then he continued bankrolling them. Where are the US newspaper headlines about the Honduran dictatorship? The Organization of American States, with the e…

The other thing that needs to be understood is that Venezuela has decided to become a socialist country. When that happens, it is normal that the GDP decreases as the economy reorganizes itself. But as income is shifted from the rich to the rest of society, most of the population will benefit, even if there is no real GDP growth.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#103

Post by pessimizer »

Can't wait until an election to declare the end of democracy? A recall referendum was thrown out by the courts, and the opposition haven't won an election in nearly 20 years.

It's official: Washington Post declares Venezuela a dictatorship on a monthly basis for past 17 years, is now openly encouraging a(nother) coup.

At least the editorial isn't written by Donald Rumsfeld, like it was in 2007[1].

"[..]a relatively large, relatively sophisticated major oil producer just three hours’ flying time from the United States has just become the second all-out, no-more-elections dictatorship in the Western Hemisphere."

Seems like a bit of a hysterical speculation based on the judicial rejection of a recall referendum between elections.

I realize that the opposition placed a lot of their hopes of turning over the results of the last election on this, but just because their plan failed doesn't mean democracy has ended. And anyway, they've clearly fallen to plan B, the same plan for if the referendum was defeated, to get the US to help with another coup. Clinton has probably indicated that she's into it. She loves that sort of thing.

[1] http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11...

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#104

Post by coliveira »

DominikR wrote: post #69
robotresearcher wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The US had been rich since about 1850, and was broke like everyone else for a short time in the 1930s. But the grandparent said this kind of disaster is 'only possible with socialism', which the Great Depression proves is not true by counterexample.

The big difference here is that in Capitalism you have boom and bust cycles where on average people still get more wealthy over time while in Socialism you'll always and without exception end up in abject poverty - and what's even worse than poverty - an authoritarian government that will attempt to control and regulate every aspect of its citizens lives including persecution of wrong thoughts.

> an authoritarian government that will attempt to control and regulate every aspect of its citizens lives including persecution of wrong thoughts.

I think this is a perfect description of capitalist countries, including the US. Of course, they try to give people thousands of perceived options, like what color of car to buy, but in the end everyone needs to abide by rules that are increasingly more coercive.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#105

Post by rgbrenner »

pastProlog wrote: post #85

Maduro was elected president. There's no vote upcoming, just yet another recall referendum, this one which failed to get going in the courts. Honduras on the other hand had an elected president. Obama bankrolled his generals, who overthrew him in a coup in 2009, and then he continued bankrolling them. Where are the US newspaper headlines about the Honduran dictatorship? The Organization of American States, with the e…

Honduras on the other hand had an elected president. Obama bankrolled his generals, who overthrew him in a coup in 2009, and then he continued bankrolling them. Where are the US newspaper headlines about the Honduran dictatorship? The Organization of American States, with the exception of the US, is who was condemning this.

Where did you read this? Wikipedia tells a very different story: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_coup_d%27%C3%A9t... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Honduran_constitutional_c...

The OAS vote suspending Honduras from the organization was unanimous.. including the US.

The US and Costa Rica also negotiated with Honduras to have Zelaya reinstated (san jose accord).

If the supreme court of Honduras issues an arrest warrant for the president.. in what way is that the fault of the US? Surely you're not suggesting some kind of grand conspiracy involving the US, the Honduras supreme court, Honduras military, multiple OAS members and Costa Rica... all working together to remove the president of Honduras just so that 6 months later they could hold an new election and continue their democracy? That would be a bit crazy.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#106

Post by hammock »

daodedickinson wrote: post #41
Rapzid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all just one poorly elected candidate away I guess. Look at what's happening in the Philippines with Duterte for a taste of why people are so concerned about Trump(regardless of whether the concern would end up founded or not).

It took more than one election: https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06CARACAS2063_a.html

Summary: the Venezuelan voting machines are rigged

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#107

Post by ams6110 »

Rapzid wrote: post #20
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #5

Venezuela'a foreign exchange reserves stand at less than $12 billion [1]. They pay over 15% of that this month to bond holders [2]. This makes no sense until one considers that the bond holders might be regime insiders. Venezuela is a state structured to maximise the transfer of wealth from the many to the few. Shockingly, as recently as 2004 Venezuela boasted fair elections [3]. The degree to which Venezuelans are t…

It's all just one poorly elected candidate away I guess. Look at what's happening in the Philippines with Duterte for a taste of why people are so concerned about Trump(regardless of whether the concern would end up founded or not).

It's why I'm concerned about Clinton.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#108

Post by ams6110 »

seiferteric wrote: post #99
asimuvPR wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thats a frequent opinion that sounds sensible. But when you put some thought into it, you realize that a lot of the electorate are poor uneducated people who did not know better.

Maybe so, it's often said that democracy requires an educated populace. So maybe if you don't have that, you don't have a democracy.

Also an unbiased and free news media, which is another thing that might need to be on your list.

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#109

Post by utku_karatas2 »

coliveira wrote: post #95
sjg007 wrote: post #62

This is amazing and tragic. How did the US let this happen?

Why do you think the US has the right to police states throughout the world?

LOL. I, too, sometimes forget HN is an American majority community and get enraged by the occasional foolishly bold comment like parent's. But then the reality sets in... I am on American soil here on HN! What was I expecting?

Re: It’s official: Venezuela is a dictatorship

#110

Post by pavlov »

coliveira wrote: post #101
pastProlog wrote: post #85

Maduro was elected president. There's no vote upcoming, just yet another recall referendum, this one which failed to get going in the courts. Honduras on the other hand had an elected president. Obama bankrolled his generals, who overthrew him in a coup in 2009, and then he continued bankrolling them. Where are the US newspaper headlines about the Honduran dictatorship? The Organization of American States, with the e…

The other thing that needs to be understood is that Venezuela has decided to become a socialist country. When that happens, it is normal that the GDP decreases as the economy reorganizes itself. But as income is shifted from the rich to the rest of society, most of the population will benefit, even if there is no real GDP growth.

Do you actually believe that an orderly transition to socialism is what's happening in Venezuela, or are you just presenting that as a theoretical framework for some kind of ideal case?
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