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Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

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Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#101

Post by greglindahl »

avar wrote: post #38
kobeya wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They (SpaceX at least) are not 100% funded by the government.

And to the extent that SpaceX isn't funded by the government they have no plans to put people into orbit as a goal in itself, only as a staging area for launching to Mars. So how is any of this a counterargument to stickfigure's "manned orbit is motivated by prestige, not rational economic behavior"?

SpaceX has said that they expect a space tourism market to develop. That sounds like rational economic behavior, even if the tourists are doing it for the prestige.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#102

Post by Retric »

rtkwe wrote: post #95
Retric wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the ITER robot needs to deal with heavy loads, micro G means even small forces add up. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_Servicing_System did not need to be that strong. http://iss.jaxa.jp/en/kibo/about/kibo/rms/ was also relatively weak. Also, don't forget without people they could send 3x the science payloads. So, scrapping things and trying again really is viable. Consider, fixing Hubble was a big thing, bu…

> Consider, fixing Hubble was a big thing, but we could have sent 3 of them up for less money. Not even close. It cost ~900M for the repair mission and the cost to build Hubble was ~2.5B. >No, the ITER robot needs to deal with heavy loads, micro G means even small forces add up. Don't forget without people they could send 3x the science payloads. So, scrapping things and trying again really is viable. Less forces onl…

> Not even close. It cost ~900M for the repair mission and the cost to build Hubble was ~2.5B.

There where 6 Hubble servicing missions. "this last Hubble servicing mission is expected to cost about $1.1 billion" http://www.space.com/6648-hubble-faq-space-telescope-repair-...

Further, 15 years is considered a relatively short lifetime for a satellite, so Hubble 2 and 3 could have easily had a longer total lifespan if they had kept them in a higher orbit because there was no need for servicing. Instead "the space telescope was designed to typically go only three years between overhauls."

AKA, they designed it to need 'fixing'.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#104

Post by dbosch »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #61
dbosch wrote: post #56

they are not "astronauts", but taïkonauts. The chinese term for going into space. Astronauts are for US. Cosmonauts for Russians. and Spationauts for Europeans.

They are astronauts. Your definitions are off https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/astronaut https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cosmonaut https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/taikonaut http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astronaut http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmonaut [ Merriam-Webster doesn't define Taïkonaut ]

Actually, the Russian call their space people "Cosmonauts". "Astronaut" has been chosen by NASA, while the USSR chose "Cosmonaut". But you're right regarding the chinese. They are not called Taikonaut in their own country. But neither "astronaut". link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut Check the terminology section.

I just wanted to highligth that only NASA (or English speaker world) call their astronaut "astronaut". In europe, we call them spationauts. And in russia, they call them "cosmonauts".

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#105

Post by wodenokoto »

dbosch wrote: post #104
Normal_gaussian wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are astronauts. Your definitions are off https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/astronaut https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/cosmonaut https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/taikonaut http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/astronaut http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cosmonaut [ Merriam-Webster doesn't define Taïkonaut ]

Actually, the Russian call their space people "Cosmonauts". "Astronaut" has been chosen by NASA, while the USSR chose "Cosmonaut". But you're right regarding the chinese. They are not called Taikonaut in their own country. But neither "astronaut". link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut Check the terminology section. I just wanted to highligth that only NASA (or English speaker world) call their astronaut "ast…

The Russian calls lots of things differently than the Americans do.

Also, nobody in Denmark says spationaut. We say Astronaut, so not all of Europe and not only English speakers.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#106

Post by Shivetya »

jcoffland wrote: post #2

China has now done 6 crewed missions to space in the last 3 years. In that time, Russia has had 13 manned missions many of which NASA astronauts have hitched a ride on. NASA is still on the ground since discontinuing the shuttle program in 2011.

Russia and China can continue to push their space program with its costs simply because their societies are not geared around hand outs and pandering for the votes of those seeking hand outs.

Space is portrayed as having been there, done that. Worse, there are some trying to portray it as a rich man's place with the advent of space tourism and thus not a place government should be except to regulate it.

With regards to NASA, the shuttles, and such. Losing the shuttle was probably the best thing to happen to NASA long term. In the short term it wasn't and not because of the decision but because the management is so dysfunctional they don't know what they need. They have enough wants to fill a Sears Christmas catalog but none spark the imagination of the public and as such get little support.

They need a good spokesman, a long term goal, and some flashy steps that are achieved along the way to keep people interested and thereby keeping the funding alive. I would love to see a permanent moon settlement for more than just a few astronauts, more like a few dozen. Tie it in eventually with private trips to help keep it up and expanding...

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#107

Post by dbosch »

wodenokoto wrote: post #105
dbosch wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the Russian call their space people "Cosmonauts". "Astronaut" has been chosen by NASA, while the USSR chose "Cosmonaut". But you're right regarding the chinese. They are not called Taikonaut in their own country. But neither "astronaut". link : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronaut Check the terminology section. I just wanted to highligth that only NASA (or English speaker world) call their astronaut "ast…

The Russian calls lots of things differently than the Americans do. Also, nobody in Denmark says spationaut. We say Astronaut, so not all of Europe and not only English speakers.

I do hear you, buddy. I'm french, and I do say "Astronaut" when I speaking about space. I'm just stating that in newspaper (not always), they say "spationaut". It's just how it's supposed to be said. But not everyone is following this. And it's ok. I was just highlighting the fact that there is a different name for people going to space regarding the country they are from. That's all.

But yeah, the american word it has probably won in the popular culture and in the day-to-day language.

Sorry. I didn't want to sound like Mr. know it all.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#108

Post by rtkwe »

Retric wrote: post #102
rtkwe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Consider, fixing Hubble was a big thing, but we could have sent 3 of them up for less money. Not even close. It cost ~900M for the repair mission and the cost to build Hubble was ~2.5B. >No, the ITER robot needs to deal with heavy loads, micro G means even small forces add up. Don't forget without people they could send 3x the science payloads. So, scrapping things and trying again really is viable. Less forces onl…

> Not even close. It cost ~900M for the repair mission and the cost to build Hubble was ~2.5B. There where 6 Hubble servicing missions. "this last Hubble servicing mission is expected to cost about $1.1 billion" http://www.space.com/6648-hubble-faq-space-telescope-repair-... Further, 15 years is considered a relatively short lifetime for a satellite, so Hubble 2 and 3 could have easily had a longer total lifespan if…

26 years (it's still going after all because of the repairs done by shuttle missions) is a long life for a space telescope and particularly for one during it's time. Before Hubble most telescopes were only around for a handful of years before being shutdown.

There's a big difference between designing to fail and designing to be repairable. Even if it's possible it could have been cheaper to launch multiples but it's unlikely NASA could have gotten the funding to start making Hubble 2 in time for it to replace Hubble.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#109

Post by Eerie »

jcoffland wrote: post #4
djaychela wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but is it not the case that NASA is focused beyond the level that's being achieved by the Chinese? I appreciate that the sls has its detractors (I'm from the UK so I don't think I have the same internal political perspective that a US commenter might), but aside from that the US government appears to have helped create a nascent private space industry that will yield real fruit in terms of both leo capacity and…

My statements above were neutral but yes I do think that the US and the western world in general are falling behind. What happens if US and Russian relations break down? Privatization of the US space industry is interesting but has yet to prove itself. No private institution has achieved manned orbit.

>What happens if US and Russian relations break down?

Russia loses the ISS, because it can't be maintained without USA ground facilities.

Essentially, it will be the end of Russian manned space flight, until they build themselves a new space station.

Re: Astronauts enter China's space station [video]

#110

Post by logfromblammo »

ceejayoz wrote: post #77
smileysteve wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes! This is the concept between ISS! The idea that we are regularly sharing launch missions is a great work for international diplomacy.

> Yes! This is the concept between ISS! Sort of. China is banned by the US government from participating in the ISS (or any other cooperation with NASA). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_exclusion_policy_of_NA...

All space tech is necessarily dual-use military. I'm certain the concern is that space launch cooperation with PR China will result in unintentional transfer of militarily relevant technologies.

Also, China is responsible for the largest single space debris generating event in history, from the intentional destruction of Fengyun-1C in 2007. That kind of thing doesn't matter to the politicians so much, but it was kind of a dick move, and had all the appearances of gratuitous saber-rattling. Space is too important for nationalist dick-measuring contests in LEO when it is already perilously close to Kessler cascade.

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