Apple Responds to Dash Controversy • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#101

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:55 AM UTC

galacticpony wrote: post #100

Mithaldu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read and listen again. He did not register the account, nor use his credentials (if he had, apple's contact attempts would've reached him). He only paid for it, and donated hardware.

The bank account used is credentials and Apple considers both accounts to belong to (quote) "the same legal entity" based on that fact. This is the way Apple conducts business.

It is indeed the way they do, but you are saying he should've known that, when he had in fact no way of knowing.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#102

Post by newsat13 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:55 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #62

jwilcoxson wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately The Loop isn't much of a news site, more of a controlled Apple leak blog. Dalrymple has gotten to the point of being a complete Apple shill. Edit: Compare the tone of the Loop article to Daring Fireballs: http://daringfireball.net/2016/10/apple_dash_controversy Gruber takes a much more unbiased approach, supported well. The Loop article reads like a statement from the Principal read by your teacher.

And here's Kapeli's explanation of what happened: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story !!! it includes a recording of a phone call with Apple !!! Edit: After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him. I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. Here's the HN submission…

Apple is so childish. It's just a single developer against a whole company. Is it so hard for a company to just bury what happened and move on?

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#103

Post by galacticpony » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 12:57 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #98

galacticpony wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't their mistake, it was his mistake. You can't just register an account, then hand it off to someone else and not be at least partially responsible for what happens through that account. If Apple didn't want to avoid the bad PR, they could just terminate their business relationship permanently, and they'd be in the right , even morally, since it was Kapeli who violated the trust.

As i told you on your other post: He didn't register it. He only paid for the initial fee and donated hardware.

It's unclear whether he registered it himself, but it doesn't matter, since according to the terms of service:

"You can choose from the payment methods presented during your membership purchase. If you are paying by credit card and enrolling as an individual, you must use your own credit card to complete your purchase. If you do not, your enrollment will be delayed and you will be asked for a copy of your government-issued photo identification."

https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#104

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:00 AM UTC

galacticpony wrote: post #103

Mithaldu wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As i told you on your other post: He didn't register it. He only paid for the initial fee and donated hardware.

It's unclear whether he registered it himself, but it doesn't matter, since according to the terms of service: "You can choose from the payment methods presented during your membership purchase. If you are paying by credit card and enrolling as an individual, you must use your own credit card to complete your purchase. If you do not, your enrollment will be delayed and you will be asked for a copy of your government-…

That only says "if you use another's card we also want your photo id". It does not say "the card's holder will be responsible for your actions".

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#105

Post by BradRuderman » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:08 AM UTC

snowpanda wrote: post #94

jwilcoxson wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Call recording != wire tapping. Not that Apple will take kindly to it either way...

Call recording is not illegal in every state.

I believe it is in California without their permission, not 100% sure.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#106

Post by galacticpony » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:10 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #104

galacticpony wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's unclear whether he registered it himself, but it doesn't matter, since according to the terms of service: "You can choose from the payment methods presented during your membership purchase. If you are paying by credit card and enrolling as an individual, you must use your own credit card to complete your purchase. If you do not, your enrollment will be delayed and you will be asked for a copy of your government-…

That only says "if you use another's card we also want your photo id". It does not say "the card's holder will be responsible for your actions".

It says if you do not pay by credit card, we want your photo ID, or at least it's ambiguous.

Again, it's unclear under whose name the account really was registered, but if he went through the trouble of sending in photo ID, Kapeli would probably mention that as to further exonerate him of any mistakes.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#107

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:13 AM UTC

galacticpony wrote: post #106

Mithaldu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only says "if you use another's card we also want your photo id". It does not say "the card's holder will be responsible for your actions".

It says if you do not pay by credit card , we want your photo ID, or at least it's ambiguous. Again, it's unclear under whose name the account really was registered, but if he went through the trouble of sending in photo ID, Kapeli would probably mention that as to further exonerate him of any mistakes.

They're be asking for photo id of the actual account holder, i.e. the relative, in lieu of id via CC account. And given that Apple was willing to reinstate his account, Kapeli is already exonerated.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#108

Post by skciva » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:14 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #47

thenipper wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love apple products, have for 31 years but the guy is pretty biased towards Apple. He writes some interesting stuff but this article for instance is basically just repeating back whatever their PR flack said.

And what if he believes it? I have little reason to doubt that Dash really posted lots of fake reviews. It's not like Apple goes and accuses people of that all the time...

I have yet to work for a company where posting fake reviews on our applications wasn't the norm. Most users (myself included) can't be bothered to write a brand new review every time an app updates.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#109

Post by yardie » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:14 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #95

galacticpony wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After listening to the entire thing, I can say that Kapeli sounds like a complete ignoramus. He has registered an account using his credentials, the account was involved in fraudulent activity, that makes him responsible, as an individual. Why is Apple supposed to even care that he doesn't control the other account anymore? He's supposed to control the account, according to the terms of service he agreed to. If he do…

Please read and listen again. He did not register the account, nor use his credentials (if he had, apple's contact attempts would've reached him). He only paid for it, and donated hardware.

Last time I bought a dev account to the App Store I had to pay with a credit card in my name. My employer was willing to pay for it and would have preferred to pay on the company credit card but the App Store explicitly didn't allow 3rd party payment.

This was made abundantly clear when I signed up.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#110

Post by Mithaldu » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 1:22 AM UTC

yardie wrote: post #109

Mithaldu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read and listen again. He did not register the account, nor use his credentials (if he had, apple's contact attempts would've reached him). He only paid for it, and donated hardware.

Last time I bought a dev account to the App Store I had to pay with a credit card in my name. My employer was willing to pay for it and would have preferred to pay on the company credit card but the App Store explicitly didn't allow 3rd party payment. This was made abundantly clear when I signed up.

According to this, it's fine to use another person's CC as long as you provide govt id such that they can tie your account to a real person (and not the CC).

https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/