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A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

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Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#101

A real barrier to a decentralised web is the difficulty of installing software on a server. I know that sounds really mundane and inconsequential in the broader debate about a decentralised web, but consider the following... Imagine if installing a server-side chat app, message board, project management app, or CMS were as easy as installing a desktop app. In a desktop app, it's usually one click to start the install…

> Who, other than technical folks, could possibly have the time, interest or inclination to set up a self-hosted solution when the barrier is so high?

Some evolution of docker swarm could greatly simplify this.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#102
post #33
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could easily move tomorrow to another git based service. The only stuff missing would be issue management.

Many rely on Github for more than source control hosting and issues. It's really not a non-issue.

I would like to have some basic issue tracking in git like in fossil (www.fossil-scm.org if you don't know, by the creator of sqlite). It's a shame that git has eclipsed all other options.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#103
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, not so much. There was some but largely limited advertising in the 19th century, but the start date was February of 1860, when The Atlantic accepted its first print ad. The practice exploded in the late 19th and early 20th century, with the rise of the factory process and widespread distribution networks, such that goods could be centrally produced and sold in distant markets. Alexander Holt discussed this…

>, but the start date was February of 1860, when The Atlantic accepted its first print ad Can you explain the criteria for "advertising" such that 1860 is marked as the significant date? There were paid ads in newspapers/pamphlets in the 1600s: https://www.brent.gov.uk/media/387509/Newspaper_advertising_... That said, I think it's reasonable to set boundary date of when newspapers switched the majority of their susta…

Consider what it takes to have a substantial advertising market: you need goods, you need buyers, you need sellers who are providing a great deal of a good (or are selling very high-ticket items for which buyers are thin), and you need means for transporting both the advertisments and the goods to buyers.

Hamilton Holt, a publisher himself (of The Independent magazine) starts off the linked work by detailing this. The first 10-15 pages cover a lot of ground, I highly recommend you read them if you haven't. Keep in mind that Holt is largely limiting himself to US practice, so specifics of earlier European publishers may be missed. But he is also focusing on the business volume of advertising, not simply the existence of occasional adverts or notices in publications.

What your link describes in considerable detail are early instances of advertising, and a few specific publications which carried them. They're drawn from across England and France, as well as the US, but don't give an impression of a thriving advertising industry, which is precisely what Holt is talking about (there are a slew of similar and related works at TIA from the 1890s to 1920s covering the boom, many offering advice to publishers, or more often, businessmen who are looking at this newfangled thing called "advertising" -- it's surprisingly interesting reading, at least for me).

I'd argue that this passage from your reference largely makes my point: that advertising wasn't a truly significant force until the 1850s, due to a confluence of factors. Again, it's patent medicines (small packages, complex product that has to be marketed, travels well, premium price, mass production) which launched the phenomenon:

The abolition of the advertising tax in 1853, the duty on newspapers in 1855 and the duty on paper in 1861 created a new environment for advertisers and publishers alike. Thomas Holloway (1800-1883), a purveyor of quack pills, was spending over £30,000 a year on advertising by 1855.

QED.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#104
post #81
post #47

The example of GitHub they use is actually telling. Git is decentralized, so why use GitHub? The answer may be surprising: It's because social has not been decentralized. Yes, status.net existed for a while but it was just about publishing short updates. Also, a few years ago several guys from my college raised money to make Diaspora. That didn't fulfill the promise of a decentralized social web either. Bitcoin is de…

Don't forget that for email to get popular, it had to be mostly centralized (Hotmail, Gmail, etc), we are lucky it's still at least federated. Bitcoin, same story -- mass adoption turns out to be dependent on service providers hosting the wallet, and most users are not miners, eroding many of the decentralization benefits.

There's still a lot of value in a mostly centralized network operating on a protocol designed for a decentralized one. That means that people who want to opt out of centralization can, and it limits the walled garden effect.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#106
In my opinion one of the disturbing trends increasingly presenting a "usability" issue is the insistence of sites putting content behind a login wall, Pinterest, LinkedIn, Glasdoor etc. Some of these make a subset of content viewable but then prohibit me from scrolling further until I sign up. Usually the sign up requires selecting one of FB, Google, et al as an Oauth provider. So by extension you kind of have centralized control of third party content as well.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public zeitgeist is finally catching up with the realisation that being entirely dependent on massive siloed community platforms is not entirely in the users’ best interests I see zero evidence this happening.

Indeed people have been saying this since AOL. This is a tired argument. Nobody is forced to use anything and you can still buy a domain and run your own Wordpress in like 15 min. Hell you can set up your own social network on Wordpress on your own domain in like 15 min.

Many computer users can do this, but most computer users can't. So most users don't have that choice.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#108

Does anyone remember the "decentralized web" of the early 2000s? Varous P2P protocols existed that allowed everyone to share content freely, and they did. Content that was not even originally in digital form was digitised and nothing but a search away. It was amazing. The copyright/media industry didn't like that. Security paranoia (possibly assisted by the industry) also heightened its demise. I really do hope we se…

I remember one of the first VOIP clients (if not the first) PowWow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowWow_(chat_program)

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#109
post #77
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>, but the start date was February of 1860, when The Atlantic accepted its first print ad Can you explain the criteria for "advertising" such that 1860 is marked as the significant date? There were paid ads in newspapers/pamphlets in the 1600s: https://www.brent.gov.uk/media/387509/Newspaper_advertising_... That said, I think it's reasonable to set boundary date of when newspapers switched the majority of their susta…

Wasn't political party support also a source of income? In those more honest days, papers didn't pretend they were "objective", and you'll see traces of this today in some papers that retain "Republican" or "Democrat" in their names (Whigs, not that I remember. :-)

Very much so. I was going to mention that but figured I'd rambled on enough already.

You might enjoy a piece I wrote about a year ago on J.P. Morgan and the purported "Banker's Manifesto" of 1892. (It proves to be a hoax.) The investigation took me through quite a few old newspaper archives, many of them political organs.

https://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/39w8u4/jp_morg...

The Arizona Republic, commenting on its own endorsement of Hillary Clinton, a Democrat, the first presidental endorsement for that party in the paper's 150+ year history, noted that it was originally known as the Arizona RepublicAN.

Re: A decentralized web would give power back to the people online

#110

A real barrier to a decentralised web is the difficulty of installing software on a server. I know that sounds really mundane and inconsequential in the broader debate about a decentralised web, but consider the following... Imagine if installing a server-side chat app, message board, project management app, or CMS were as easy as installing a desktop app. In a desktop app, it's usually one click to start the install…

It is as easy as installing a desktop app. Sometimes even easier (you can not just write "apt-get install Word" and it will be just there).

The problem is that you don't just want a CMS, you want it to look a special way, do special things with it, don't want other people to access it without you allowing it, etc.

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