Would have been better if they had rewritten in rust or go if they wanted to eliminate problems with distros...
Rust would actually be problematic with most distros.
Why? What would be the source of problems?
Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
101–110 of 161 posts
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#102Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
As someone who does a ton of Node/JS coding as well as some Python, I am personally offended! Ok, not really, but I think you're wrong :) I think VB is more similar to Python in the sense that both languages were designed with some sense of simplicity and straight-forwardness in mind. Both PHP and Javascript are much more complex from a language design standpoint, which makes them more difficult to learn "well" for b…
>> A good engineer can write high quality code in "almost" any programming language. It's the coder, not the language, that determines engineering quality. That's just a platitude, and it's wrong. Languages with better features allow engineers at varying levels of experience to write better code than they otherwise might. JS almost forces you to write garbage.
> JS almost forces you to write garbage.
There are ways to work around this...
First, ES6 brings a lot of enhancements to JS. However, it also makes JS even more complex and unwieldy because now you have all of these new and old language features co-existing.
If you use a tool like ESLint, you can limit yourself to a subset of the whole ES6 standard that I think is a decent programming language.
There's also other ways to go at it, by using a language that compiles to JS like TypeScript, however maybe that would be considered cheating in the context of this argument.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
> i'm sure i'm going to burn karma for comparing node with vb but... I'll take the hit for you and flat-out say that node.js is the new VB. In fact, for those of you that have been around a while, I think we can all agree that node.js is the new PHP was the new Visual Basic, etc. Not in the sense that they do the same things, but that they were purposely built for non-programmers (baby-devs) to be able to program (wh…
I never got this. Coding in Nodejs is much, much harder that in Python, Ruby, C# or Java. I've seen .NET (and even C) programmers that after a year of coding using node still don't have a clue what the hell is happening. Dynamic typing vs. Static typing doesn't make a language harder . If you prefer dynamic languages you are just a bit lazier and short sighted. Async vs. Sync (specially the way node handles it) IS ha…
I agree with most of what you said, but this is a bit naive:
> If you prefer dynamic languages you are just a bit lazier and short sighted.
In theory, the only drawback of a statically typed language is the up front work required to make the compiler happy. In practice, you end up losing a lot of expressive power, and abstractions that were previously effortless now either add a lot of verbosity/complexity, or are simply impossible. Scala is the most expressive statically typed language I've seen, but even there you often have to jump through hoops to implement certain abstractions in a type safe way. The decision to use a dynamic language is not about laziness.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…
So you're saying bower is cancer? Webpack is cancer? Babel is cancer ? JavaScript module system made popular by nodejs is cancer? I largely prefer Python as a language but Nodejs is the best thing that happened to web development in years/ever
> So you're saying bower is cancer? Webpack is cancer? Babel is cancer ? JavaScript module system made popular by nodejs is cancer?
So I write a ton of JavaScript including plenty in node. But make no mistake bower, webpack, babel and npm are all crap. They're hacks. Bandaids to make ES6, the web and JavaScript modules packaging and installation work correctly. They all have their own issues, huge dependencies (I mean holy crap it took me several minutes to install Babel last time I did it all just so I can use slightly different syntax and deal with map files? ugh).
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
What? Node.JS is Javascript. JS at the end of the name stands for Javascript!
You beat me to it. I was going to write: Node.JS === Javascript
...except for the whole sync/async (libuv) thing. And the bits they added on top of V8, like Buffers.
Maybe Javascript == Node.JS then?
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#107This reminds me of companies rewriting applications from VB to c++/c#. Half the people complained about VB being good enough and more popular. But the overall feeling was that once the rapid application dev version is out the door and ok then it's a good time to redo it with something more engineering-y, for long term support before the first version gets too ossified. (i'm sure i'm going to burn karma for comparing…
Funny enough, I use Python primarily, but when it comes to deploying small standalone tools I have a list of things I want to rewrite into something like Go so I don't have to deal with dependencies. In my little experience with Node it seems even worse. One petty but relevant fact is that Node isn't installed by default while Python generally is.
I can definitely see prototyping something in whatever language is convenient and after proving its usefulness rewrite it in a language that fits wider goals. Their motivation[1] seems pretty solid.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You do realize that Python was not only built to appeal to "non-devs" ... as an alternative to C++ and Perl. And in that respect, it is a snap to pick up. It is pretty easy, not as easy as, say, Javascript, but still easy to pick up, I agree. Node.js is cancer. We all use it, because of the momentum it has with designers instantly being able to declare themselves "full-stack devs", but make no mistake -- Node.js an…
I'm surprised to see JS described as easier than Python. I'd say it's considerably harder and more complex. The first reason being that it forces you to think about asynchronosity constantly, and that's something a beginner's going to struggle with -- not just the idea that your code won't run in order, but that there are so many ways to deal with it (callbacks, promises, async/await, event emitters) all with their o…
> weird invisible things that trip you up like hoisting
Huh? How can you get tripped up by hoisting? I'm genuinely curious.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#109I'm currently starting one project on Node.js and just this morning I thought to myself. This is too hard. I might as well rewrite it in Python.
The main issue for me is how Node.js is forcing you to have all I/O operations asynchronous. For what I'm doing, this is exactly what I don't need. It makes the code so much more complicated. It's callback into callback into callback and returning "promises" within "promises"... simple functions are turned into beasts. It works but it's obvious I'm not using the right tool for the job.
Don't get me wrong. I'm actually glad I dived into Node.js and learned a lot of new things. It's just that Node.js is very specialized framework which is amazing for certain use-cases and totally inappropriate for others.
On the other hand, Python is general-purpose. It's never the best tool for the job but it's almost always good enough. So once you know Python, you know you can use it in many diverse projects without giving up your sanity. Can't say the same about Node.js.
Re: Announcing Azure Command-Line Interface 2.0 Preview
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm surprised to see JS described as easier than Python. I'd say it's considerably harder and more complex. The first reason being that it forces you to think about asynchronosity constantly, and that's something a beginner's going to struggle with -- not just the idea that your code won't run in order, but that there are so many ways to deal with it (callbacks, promises, async/await, event emitters) all with their o…
You are absolutely correct. JavaScript is by no means as easy for a beginner than Python. Once you get beyond the most basic of programs , JavaScript starts throwing a lot of crazy concepts at you like prototypical inheritance,hoisting, and this (and I'm only counting es5)
When you bundle it with HTML/CSS it's an easier start to GUI development then python.