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Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

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Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#101

Post by lukas099 »

qubex wrote: post #70
userbinator wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pumped out of the ground as oil, converted into plastics, and after a short life, buried in the ground again. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if much of it didn't also end up floating in the ocean, being eaten by animals and contaminating the human food chain. What I think is most sad about this is that we've come up with a material that can last nearly forever and is relatively easy to reuse and recycle (at least…

There's something profoundly wrong when it makes sense to us to extract oil from the ground in the Middle East, ship it to India, convert it into polymer, ship it to China, mould it into knives and forks, ship it to the West, use it once, and then bury it forever underground (or expend energy to smelt it down into lower grade polymer for use in something that will end up in the ground), all to avoid rinsing some meta…

Not disagreeing with you, but this system does employ a lot of people in the Middle East, India, China, and the West.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#102

Post by toyg »

qubex wrote: post #70
userbinator wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pumped out of the ground as oil, converted into plastics, and after a short life, buried in the ground again. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if much of it didn't also end up floating in the ocean, being eaten by animals and contaminating the human food chain. What I think is most sad about this is that we've come up with a material that can last nearly forever and is relatively easy to reuse and recycle (at least…

There's something profoundly wrong when it makes sense to us to extract oil from the ground in the Middle East, ship it to India, convert it into polymer, ship it to China, mould it into knives and forks, ship it to the West, use it once, and then bury it forever underground (or expend energy to smelt it down into lower grade polymer for use in something that will end up in the ground), all to avoid rinsing some meta…

> all to avoid rinsing some metallic cutlery.

It's not that; it's that the capitalist/commercial way of life is naturally one-way: I sell you something and you go away. Anything after the sale is burdensome and unnatural, from a commercial point of view; so we get one-way cutlery.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#103

Post by keeganjw »

legulere wrote: post #31
jokoon wrote: post #4

I fail to understand why Scandinavian politics always manage to make sense. Is that cultural, historical, economical, or does the tough climate force people to think a little bit more about how they manage their society?

There's also lots of things wrong in Scandinavia. There's segregation between the "native" population and the immigrants/their descendants. Suspects for crime, including children are put into isolation by default. Strict drug laws, strict alcohol laws that lead to binge drinking instead of a normal enjoyment of beer/wine. A strong sense that they're the best in the world which they often actively carry outwards. Stil…

This reminds me of my time in Stockholm. I was there for a few months and saw quite a few homeless people. I don't remember a single one of them being a white "native" Swede. They all appeared to be immigrants. Swedes might brag about their good social welfare (and it's great if you can get it) but it doesn't seem to be applied evenly.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#104

Post by ap22213 »

What is it about Nordic countries that allows them to avoid corruption and political decay? As an outsider, it seems that they're always experimenting with new approaches and evolving the government and laws to keep up with the changing needs of the citizenry.

In the US, I felt like we were starting to get somewhere back in the 90s, but it's been a downward fall since then. Now, corruption permeates even at the local levels. Many of the people that I talk to blame the lack of time. I don't know - but there's major apathy and cynicism, and it seems to be getting worse.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#105

Post by brightball »

J-dawg wrote: post #6

This idea seems so sensible it's a no-brainer. (I'm almost dreading the comments explaining why I'm wrong!) The human race is producing unprecedented quantities of non-recyclable "stuff". It's pumped out of the ground as oil, converted into plastics, and after a short life, buried in the ground again. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if much of it didn't also end up floating in the ocean, being eaten by animals and cont…

If anything, it seems like this might be a reasonably untapped area for innovation: making repairs more efficient.

Right now all of the business and efficiency gains seem to be invested in lowering production cost, selling fast and hard to gain market share.

It seems like a way to make repairs more efficient could be a solid way of attacking a market slowly with a quality product. Slower growth but you build a brand for resilience and your market share is more defined by customers who aren't looking elsewhere than new acquisitions.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#106

Post by bendbro »

pathy wrote: post #82
ab5tract wrote: post #62

Correct me if I am wrong, but under ISDS rules (a la TPP/TTIP), companies could now sue Sweden for potential lost profits as a result of this legislation, right? (Assuming Sweden is signed onto an ISDS treaty, which it probably is not).

What makes you think that? Tax breaks on repairs would not adversely and unfairly impact companies possibility to sell in Sweden.

It would advsersely affect profits and the argument would be that it's unfair

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#107

Post by barnacs »

yodsanklai wrote: post #56
tmptmp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease onto the clothes, making people believe the problem is not a simple one. Great insight. I wonder how far we (as in general society) have come from the science/technology aspects of our day to day life. Even repairing simple machines like a washing machine is almost beyond the…

It's not only a matter of ability, but also of opportunity cost. For instance, when I was a teenager, I always fixed my bicycle by myself. Nowadays, I guess I could do it if I had too, but I prefer to pay $50 and have somebody else do it for me. Same goes for washing machines or similar appliance, I'm sure many people could manage to fix them by themselves by spending enough time, but is it worth it?

It depends on your definition of opportunity cost.

Recently my ~20 year old fridge stopped working and I spent the better part of the day diagnosing the issue, getting a replacement part and fixing it. Sure, I could have spent that time doing wage labor, call someone to fix it or even get a new fridge and I would have ended up with a net profit. But to me personally, the bigger opportunity cost would have been missing the chance to tinker, learn about fridge circuits, compressors, thermistors, diagnose and fix the issue and enjoy success.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#108

Post by brianwawok »

sotojuan wrote: post #89
jamesblonde wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true. Just proves the point that it was controversial that somebody with religious tendencies has the lever of power. I should also add Swedish newspapers are somewhat more responsible/rational than Anglo Saxon newspapers (Expressen/Aftonbladet excluded, of course). DN, DI, Dagbladet are all pretty fair to the 'other side'.

In the US it's the exact opposite. Saying you're not religious is political suicide!

Well saying you are not some form of Christian. Both an atheist and a Muslim would have no chance of being elected. Jewish seems to be generally okay. Not sure on Buddhist or other eastern religions.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#109

Post by TeMPOraL »

sametmax wrote: post #36
tmptmp wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>And the failure mode either sounds dramatic (like a jet engine coming apart in the spin cycle) and/or the machine starts putting brown grease onto the clothes, making people believe the problem is not a simple one. Great insight. I wonder how far we (as in general society) have come from the science/technology aspects of our day to day life. Even repairing simple machines like a washing machine is almost beyond the…

I always has been. Even 30 years ago most people didn't know how to fix those machines. People fixing cars or plumbery have been popularized by TV and books, but really they were a minority, for the simple reason learning a skill takes time. And most people invest their time in only a limited set of things.

Even if you didn't know how to fix that car or washing machine, there was a good chance someone in or close to your family - your uncle, your son's girlfriend, etc. - could do that for you. Many of such people started repair shops that could fix pretty much any device of a given category. This secondary repair market is what's disappearing thanks to stuff being less serviceable and more disposable.

Re: Sweden Wants to Fight Disposable Culture with Tax Breaks for Repairing Old Stuff

#110

Post by fuzzfactor »

J-dawg wrote: post #6

This idea seems so sensible it's a no-brainer. (I'm almost dreading the comments explaining why I'm wrong!) The human race is producing unprecedented quantities of non-recyclable "stuff". It's pumped out of the ground as oil, converted into plastics, and after a short life, buried in the ground again. Maybe this wouldn't be so bad if much of it didn't also end up floating in the ocean, being eaten by animals and cont…

If you do the math, it can be seen that a large enough software company, with a strong enough anti-recycling ("upgrade") program, could be responsible for more toxic chemicals being wasted compared to the chemcal waste from companies like Dow and DuPont.
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