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I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

jakewins.com

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Re: I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

#101
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, what a dick move. Who is this Hannes von Haugwitz?

I have found 8 commits ( https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/logcheck/logcheck.git/log/?q... ). Seven of those change 1-2 lines, the other updates the copyright file. As far as I can see: - 6a4bf69 has not been reverted - d4a97c5 has been reverted in 8050b2d - 5f7da05 has been reverted in ccc183d (webmin) - cf5e9d3 has been reverted in 792a996 (webmin) - c6634da has not been reverted, he is still listed in debian/copyrig…

It's a dick move to revert and not tell the person why it was done even after they ask.

Re: I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

#102
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that your post misses and that most people who criticize Wikipedia miss, is that all stuff written everywhere could be wrong or malicious. Any book, any blog, anything could be wrong by accident or on purpose. Wikipedia is open enough we can investigate it and readily determine who the malicious or incorrect actors are. Which is far more than any book from antiquity, most blogs and even much professional jo…

When you view any page's history, all you get is a list of pseudonyms and IP addresses. Sure, you can probably get the country of origin and sometimes maybe even the employer from the latter, but that's basically it. I don't think that's very much, given that nobody on Wikipedia is required to disclose who they are in real life (there's even a policy specifically against posting such information about others[1]). Wel…

Admins don't even understand their own policies.

Re: I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

#103
post #32

I did the same thing..... and then the contributor took contributions from others that added security holes, removed cross platform support, and had what I consider to be low code quality. I've now disowned that project. Therefore, I'm extremely hesitant to hand out "commit bit"s again. To make up for it I try and review PRs the day of submission; even then I don't get a lot of contributions. There seems to be a inhe…

Wouldn't it have made sense to revert the first subpar commit, pulled aside the contributors and explained to them what is acceptable? Disowning the project seems like a lose/lose situation.

Why not just let them fork the project if they want to take it in a different direction?

Re: I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

#104
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that your post misses and that most people who criticize Wikipedia miss, is that all stuff written everywhere could be wrong or malicious. Any book, any blog, anything could be wrong by accident or on purpose. Wikipedia is open enough we can investigate it and readily determine who the malicious or incorrect actors are. Which is far more than any book from antiquity, most blogs and even much professional jo…

When you view any page's history, all you get is a list of pseudonyms and IP addresses. Sure, you can probably get the country of origin and sometimes maybe even the employer from the latter, but that's basically it. I don't think that's very much, given that nobody on Wikipedia is required to disclose who they are in real life (there's even a policy specifically against posting such information about others[1]). Wel…

There are new ways to make inaccuracies but there are also new ways to weed them out.

There are enforced rules about citing sources, the history of any page can be checked, there is discussion for just about any page, and more controls that don't exist on any book or news site. Errors are often fixed as soon as they are discovered, which is impossible for books and less common than it ought to be for web pages.

As for anonymity the author of most content may as well be anonymous. Other than the most famous authors or most learned readers the author of any given data is generally not of interest for practical use. For the domain expert this is of course not true, but the domain expert is generally publishing to a peer reviewed journal and reading from similar sources with an extreme eye on things like bias and sample size.

Since we are using wikipedia as a source, for maximum irony here is the page on wikipedia about the reliability of wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

It cites 240 sources, including peer reviewed journal Nature and panel discussions of specific domain experts.

Re: I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

#105
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you view any page's history, all you get is a list of pseudonyms and IP addresses. Sure, you can probably get the country of origin and sometimes maybe even the employer from the latter, but that's basically it. I don't think that's very much, given that nobody on Wikipedia is required to disclose who they are in real life (there's even a policy specifically against posting such information about others[1]). Wel…

There are new ways to make inaccuracies but there are also new ways to weed them out. There are enforced rules about citing sources, the history of any page can be checked, there is discussion for just about any page, and more controls that don't exist on any book or news site. Errors are often fixed as soon as they are discovered, which is impossible for books and less common than it ought to be for web pages. As fo…

> There are enforced rules about citing sources

There are articles with no citations that have been lying there and accumulating dust for almost ten years.[0] I wouldn't call that "enforced". And when you bring the verifiability policy at deletion debates, sooner or later someone will inevitably say "the policy says the article has to be verifiABLE, not verifiED" or other such nonsense. Bring in enough users like that and the only sort-of-working cleanup process on Wikipedia grinds to a halt.

And let's forget that while verifiability policies require sources to be "reliable", this word isn't defined anywhere. Which makes the definition bendable to the whims of users at hand, as long as nobody else notices. The result is predictable.[1]

> the history of any page can be checked

Giving very little useful information, as I wrote before. And what does it matter if it can be checked? Who actually does it?

> there is discussion for just about any page

Oh yeah. Like the over 40 thousand words written over whether to capitalise a preposition, which only stopped after Randall Munroe drew a comic which called it out as an embarrassment to the project.[2] (And I don't even like the guy.) And no, it's not just a singular example. Disputes like this arise all of the time; Wikipedians have dutifully collected them into a list[3], from which of course they refuse to draw any conclusions.

The discussion pages are often a liability rather than an advantage. It's easy to understand why those prolonged discussions happen: one, because they tend to concentrate on colour-of-the-bike-shed issues like this, and two, because nobody has a final say on any issue. You win discussions on Wikipedia usually 0) by inviting your friends to support you, 1) by making passive-aggressive remarks just stingy enough to annoy your opponents, but not enough to constitute overt, actionable personal attacks, and 2) by playing silly word-games with policies to twist them to your will. (Of course, there rules do exist against all three, but see point 2.) This shall render your opponents outnumbered and/or too tired to argue any further, at which point you just wait for an administrator to declare consensus in your favour. Of course, it is easy to imagine what kind of people can afford to employ these tactics effectively: PR agencies and OCD sufferers with lots of free time.

> Errors are often fixed as soon as they are discovered

Which can be as late as 10 years after being introduced, and after careless writers have incorporated those errors into their own work, as happened with Jar'Edo Wens. Counter-vandalism patrol only looks for overt hooligans, not fraudsters. While traditional publishing makes errors harder to introduce in the first place.

> As for anonymity the author of most content may as well be anonymous. Other than the most famous authors or most learned readers the author of any given data is generally not of interest for practical use.

So page histories are useless after all? Is it not true that "we can investigate it and readily determine who the malicious or incorrect actors are"?

> Since we are using wikipedia as a source, for maximum irony here is the page on wikipedia about the reliability of wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia

> It cites 240 sources, including peer reviewed journal Nature and panel discussions of specific domain experts.

I think you've mentioned sample sizes somewhere in your comment... didn't you? What does one article being ostensibly well-referenced prove? Can you trust the article to be actually supported by those sources? Never mind that single Nature study, which you're no doubt referring to, used rather questionable methodology and is seriously outdated at this point.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Articles_lacking_sour...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:All_articles_lacking_...

[2] https://xkcd.com/1167/

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:LAMEST

Re: I gave commit rights to someone I didn't know

#106
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are new ways to make inaccuracies but there are also new ways to weed them out. There are enforced rules about citing sources, the history of any page can be checked, there is discussion for just about any page, and more controls that don't exist on any book or news site. Errors are often fixed as soon as they are discovered, which is impossible for books and less common than it ought to be for web pages. As fo…

> There are enforced rules about citing sources There are articles with no citations that have been lying there and accumulating dust for almost ten years .[0] I wouldn't call that "enforced". And when you bring the verifiability policy at deletion debates, sooner or later someone will inevitably say "the policy says the article has to be verifiABLE, not verifiED" or other such nonsense. Bring in enough users like th…

Yet despite all that, and your apparent bias, you continue to use Wikipedia as your primary source.
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