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Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

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Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#101

Post by Houshalter »

dexterdog wrote: post #93
Houshalter wrote: post #64

Some thoughts in no particular order, edited from an IRC discussion I just had on this: The price is extremely low. If you drive just 20 minutes per day, and your time is worth at least minimum wage, it makes sense to buy this for just a year, and hopefully it lasts longer than that. But there is a monthly subscription cost ($300 per year) i didn't factor in. And wtf, since when does hardware have a subscription cost…

Most accidents cost nowhere near $10 million. Hell, the 9/11 payouts only averaged $1.7 mil.

Yes but that's very different. Most accidents aren't the suing a company but a driver. This would be more like someone suing a car manufacturer because they made a faulty steering wheel or something. And I based that on the economic value of life, as estimated by various government agencies to be around that number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Life_Value_in_th... But it should also include legal fees which aren't cheap at all.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#102

Post by dharma1 »

Fricken wrote: post #98
dharma1 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he just used that as an example of what types of journeys can be driven. What mostly bothers me about this is his disregard to whether someone dies or not using the product. But hey, as long as they're shipping this year, under $1000, that's all that matters right? I've read their paper and it's solid ML research, he's got a few good guys on the team. And I don't really disagree about MobilEye. But there are…

It's silly to be throwing out dire warnings about Comma's product without first going after Tesla. With a level 2 system, whether it works 90% of the time, or 99.9% of the time, the driver has still got to watch the road and be ready to respond in an instant. In fact, the less reliable the system is, the less there is the likelihood that a driver will entrust their life to it when they shouldn't.

I agree - I think the way Musk has been so bullish in public about autonomous driving is dangerous. I think Tesla needs more sensors, in particular LIDAR, and better software too, and I'm not sure Autopilot is an apt name for a level 2 system like the one on Tesla or the new Volvos.

However, I think that difference between 90% and 99.99999% is crucial, and that boils down to the quality of the software and hardware, and the amount of testing. I find it irresponsible to beta test a product on users when there is a very real chance of something going wrong and people dying or getting injured.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#103

Post by Fricken »

dharma1 wrote: post #102
Fricken wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's silly to be throwing out dire warnings about Comma's product without first going after Tesla. With a level 2 system, whether it works 90% of the time, or 99.9% of the time, the driver has still got to watch the road and be ready to respond in an instant. In fact, the less reliable the system is, the less there is the likelihood that a driver will entrust their life to it when they shouldn't.

I agree - I think the way Musk has been so bullish in public about autonomous driving is dangerous. I think Tesla needs more sensors, in particular LIDAR, and better software too, and I'm not sure Autopilot is an apt name for a level 2 system like the one on Tesla or the new Volvos. However, I think that difference between 90% and 99.99999% is crucial, and that boils down to the quality of the software and hardware,…

This came out today. Autopilot's body count just doubled:

https://electrek.co/2016/09/14/another-fatal-tesla-autopilot...

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#104

Post by thescriptkiddie »

primitivesuave wrote: post #12

I would love nothing more than for Bay Area congestion to be solved by self-driving cars, but I take this announcement with a grain of salt because it lacks any mention of liabilities and regulatory hurdles. Unless the management can answer the difficult questions, unforeseen difficulties likely await anyone who installs this device in their car. Insurance companies may refuse to cover accidents caused by the device,…

I don't think self driving cars will solve congestion. If anything, they will increase congestion by making driving less inconvenient.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#105

Post by commaai »

dharma1 wrote: post #66
TD-Linux wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off-the-shelf in the context of electronics means that they didn't custom design some parts of it (for example using a SoC module rather than custom DDR layout), not that the parts are consumer rated.

Which SoC is it? Jetson?

Snapdragon 820

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#106

Post by dexterdog »

Houshalter wrote: post #101
dexterdog wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most accidents cost nowhere near $10 million. Hell, the 9/11 payouts only averaged $1.7 mil.

Yes but that's very different. Most accidents aren't the suing a company but a driver. This would be more like someone suing a car manufacturer because they made a faulty steering wheel or something. And I based that on the economic value of life, as estimated by various government agencies to be around that number: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_of_life#Life_Value_in_th... But it should also include legal fees…

You're also assuming fatalities which are not common. You're also assuming that the software company will be able to be found liable after both a waiver and a proven history of safety testing. Currently we have about 15 fatalities per 100k drivers. 40% of those are alcohol related so I'm going to count those as saves right away. Many of the rest are weather/sleeping/texting/etc that are easily savable. Even if we pretend those will all still happen, the goal is a 10x safety increase which would mean .9 per 100k. Even at your outlandish 10M number that would not kill the company, but the reality is closer to 1/10 that amount and even less if the legal hurdles are properly-managed.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#107

Post by mdonahoe »

joering2 wrote: post #69
mdonahoe wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may think differently when someone you know or care about is killed by an AI controlled vehicle. Apparent reckless use of technology frightens people, regardless of the actual risk.

I'm not saying their solution is perfect. Nothing is. But will I send a hate mail to utensil factory because I cut myself with their kitchen knife? No, I won't.

"Cut myself"

What happens when the knife cuts you? :-)

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#108

Post by nzjrs »

dexterdog wrote: post #97
nzjrs wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a gulf of a difference between saying 'nothing is perfect' and therfore excusing crap - and making a reliable safe product. That difference is engineering, and we undervalue it at our peril.

Do you think comma.ai is undervaluing it? Do you think they don't know that they will be under an irrational microscope the second they release an MVP?

Based on the actions and arrogance of their founder, yes.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#109

Post by joseakle »

Why not position it as an accident avoidance system?

Most accidents occur due to distracted drivers. A self braking car preventing drivers from rear ending other cars can easily be justified as a good investment. Having something like this to "upgrade" any car to a better safety system makes more sense to me from a marketing standpoint.

Re: Comma.ai will ship a $999 autonomous driving add-on by the end of this year

#110

Post by nzjrs »

Chronic9q wrote: post #94
dexterdog wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what we need is the government involved. They'll solve everything.

They have solved everything in Scandinavia. They've just about solved black vs white racism too. Yes, go look it up.

Well that got weird fast.
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