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The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

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Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#101
post #89
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The whole enterprise seems very poorly thought out. That depends on which circle you sit with. Some of them are straight up dangerous (meaning, whoever is running it has not been through the proper training), while others are incredibly well-organized and safe. And "freak-outs" are oftentimes the point, not meant to be suppressed or dealt with, but guided through by a competent shaman / group. You get to a certain…

Right, but if people are getting stabbed it's generally time to put an end to the offending freakouts.

One locus of the universe puts a "knife" between the "ribs" of another. The second locus transcends material existence and returns it's material to the whole which it was never really apart from.

It's all fine.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#102
post #5

Has anyone here actually tried ayahuasca and can share their experience?

Throwaway account; this stuff is of dubious legality and I like being employable. I participated in a Yagé ceremony -- locally, though led by a Columbian shaman and apprentice -- about a month ago on recommendation of my individual therapist. This was my first experience with psychedelics (or anything stronger than marajuana), and I went in with a set of expectations: powerful wakeful hallucinations, ego death, and a…

Thank you for sharing your experience.

I suspect I will never try to try it given the above.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#103
post #54

In my eyes the VERY FACT that psychedelics like N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) even exist in the FIRST place (and take you on the experiences that they take you) can NOT be some sort of coincidence. I am not suggesting that they are some special all-knowing tool, but the sheer potency of DMT and the other-worldly-dimension-changing-states-of-mind that it yields when consumed can not be shrugged off as just another recr…

I feel like the skeptic here but it sounds like you took them, and still have not answered the above questions, hence they don't answer those questions?

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#104

In years of observation, I have no doubt that if the compound has some interesting properties, it will be exploited, outcry / moralizing will ensue, and legislation will be passed to criminialise any use. All it really takes is one precious snowflake to do something hurtful to themselves or others to kick-off a motivated response. Well, at least computer duster inhalants are still widely available (/sarcasm).

Honestly, just from reading this thread it sounds like it should be banned.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#105

While I don't doubt the psychological benefits of ayahuasca (or any hallucinogenic), the language of many of those advocating in the article set off red flags. "Format your harddrive", reminds of Arch Oboler's "Society of the Cosmos", something dreamed up by Evangelical hucksters who didn't see a future in peddling Jesus so they turned to techno speak to wring out the marks. "We manifest abundance wherever we go," so…

One of my favorite Terrence McKenna quotes: "Once you've gotten the message, hang up the phone." Hallucinogens may deliver you the message, but you need to know to take it once you have it, and not go crazy taking more and more. I have a friend who fell down that rabbit hole. Doesn't seem to end well.

It's true even if you don't take psychedelics. There's a tendency to confuse peak experiences (however that comes about) and awakening.

Bonnie Greewall, who wrote her PhD dissertation on specific form of spiritual emergence in the field of transpersonal psychology is one person who teaches this. She speaks of people who, having confused those peak experiences with "enlightenment", goes on trying to seek out greater and greater experiences. There is a kind of withdrawal effect that happens when the next big thing doesn't show up. This is in contrast to awakening, in which one is aware of true nature as awareness. This awareness is available in all states, whether blissful or wrathful, with or without psychedelics.

At the end of the day though, it's still about awareness, whether that is in the ceremony or in the ordinary life.

I think the psychedelics gives the kick out of the nest some people need. I know a lot of folks roll their eyes at some of the things being said in the article, but having participated in ceremonies and hanged out with the folks who go, they are not as far-fetched as you might think it is. Both the cringe-inducing quotes and the folks who roll their eyes are, I think, representative of the the spiritual miasma and dis-ease in modern society.

And since I got into some drama here the last time I said something like this, I'm going to try to write as clearly here: while there are some people who can answer what these peak experiences and these spiritual paths do for themselves as individuals, we as a human species and a race _as a whole_ still have not figured out the place and purpose of spirituality in modernity. Modernity was first the separation, and then the complete disassociation of spirituality. A Dagara medicine man friend of mine puts it, "there were the Keepers, the Breakers, and the Menders". The Keepers are traditionalists. The Breakers are modernists. The Menders are only emerging.

Modernity broke the traditional views, with some proponents seeing themselves as heroes for doing so. Although it isn't as if all traditional views were all that great, in the glee to toss everything out that smacked of traditional, we left a big gaping hole in our beings. We don't even have the language in modernity to speak of this without feeling cynical, or opening ourselves to being attacked for being superstitious.

This is the hole that traditional spirit medicines like Ayahuasca helps now -- despite, as the article says, it wasn't traditionally used that way. It just happens to be something a lot of us need, even if we don't always know we need it.

But since we don't have modern (or post-modern) language or framework to speak about spirituality in a coherent way ... well, let's just say we're all engaged in a grand discussion about that, groping together towards the answer. Ayahuasca is part of that ongoing groping we humans are doing.

Whatever we come up with, it's going to radically include both traditional and modern view, both rational -- and yes, irrational and transrational things about our world.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#106

I run an ayahuasca clinic in Upstate NY. I make all my own preparations and tend to the ritual aspects as well as guide people on trips. I've been doing this as my profession for several years now, feel free to ask any questions

Wow! That must be an insane profession. I have a few questions for you: Firstly, how do you deal with the legal aspect of things? (If you can answer that, if not, I understand) Secondly, why take the potion instead of pure DMT? If that is the active ingredient (along with an MAOI), I'd imagine just taking the pure compound to be more efficacious. (And the trips last only 20 minutes or something- under an hour) Thirdl…

It's not as crazy as you might imagine - at least, compared to the lifestyles my clients lead. I (unfortunately) do not live in a geodesic yurt in some Catskill mountain grove, but in a modest rear house apartment in a town with generally nothing going on. The ceremonies are all hosted at friends or acquaintances houses who rent it to me.

The legality of it is something I am not worried about. The reagents to make DMT are not illegal to possess, only DMT itself. I keep them all separated at all times and I do not possess any baggies, scales, or any drug paraphernalia. The drugs are created on-site by me a day before the trip - this is part of the package I offer. Basically you come stay at a gorgeous (sometimes less so but generally nice) home and relax, put your cell phone in an anti-static bag in a safe and unwind before the next day. Sometimes I throw little parties with my friends' bands, but thats at the discretion of the client (after all a party is a good way to attract cops). If I do get caught, I would try my best to use the case as a legal vehicle to change the scheduling of DMT and other psychedelics.

With regards to potions + crystals (the 'pure' form of DMT), well, like other business I offer various products and packages. The trips are different, totally separate categories of mind-altering. Both options are available plus other packages. There's a DMT + LSD two-night stay that I personally think is the most fun (depends on my ability to procure that though, since I'm not that good at synthesis and LSD is legit the hardest drug to make) since they get both the intense "next-level" DMT and then they can ride it out on some low-dosage LSD where we paint, read, write, occasionally program (lots of 'hacker' clients), discuss, and whatever else the client wants to do. I get a lot of couples who just want me to be there to administer the potion and then be "on-call" in case they freak out but that's only happened once. I just write on those days. Working on a fantasy novel.

I have friends who have chronic illnesses who swear by "recreational" drugs such as LSD, DMT (both forms), and, of course, THC. They have good judgement of their limits and I would say are more in touch with their body than able bodied people, it's fascinating to hear them talk of their conception of their physicality as compared to (this is a real quote) the finance bro who sees it more "like a bunch of car parts that evolution glued together". People with illnesses are attuned to their systems in a way that offers a unique perspective to me. However, I have personally never administered a trip to someone who wasn't able-bodied or otherwise 'healthy' - not bc of my preference, it's just been the clientele so far. We generally do not trip with medical people on staff unless requests but that's never come up.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#107
post #87

http://www.theonion.com/article/ayahuasca-shaman-dreading-an...

Yup. A friend sent that a while ago. I sent it around to the folks who regularly takes Ayahuasca. We were all cracking up. It was either written by someone who took it at least once, or maybe just connected really well with it.

I didn't know at the time it was such a thing in SV though.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#108

The experience you will have is tremendously dependent on a few things: your existing state of mind, the physical environment / location of the experience, preparations (if any) made for the experience, and arguably most importantly (IMHO), your intention or reason for seeking the experience. If you go at it with the attitude that this is simply a reason to get high, or to observe visual disturbances for the sheer sa…

If the effect only manifests when you think about it correctly, is it a placebo?

Cognitive distortion may manifest in many ways, like bad trips.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite Terrence McKenna quotes: "Once you've gotten the message, hang up the phone." Hallucinogens may deliver you the message, but you need to know to take it once you have it, and not go crazy taking more and more. I have a friend who fell down that rabbit hole. Doesn't seem to end well.

Alan watts said that. Terrence Mckenna would probably say the opposite.

there were two Terrence McKenna's.

One was a carnival barker, a demagogue, and showman who preaches to the choir about all kinds of things that excites them. those people bought tickets to hear him speak, and indeed, he gave them what they wanted.

the other was a deeply insightful and contemplative man who was a scholar, philosopher, and mystic. he said what he meant and what he believed to be true, regardless of what the audience might have thought about it.

there were two Alan Watts as well, of course. he was a public persona just as much as Terrence ever was. More-so actually.

Re: The Drug of Choice for the Age of Kale

#110
post #50

I run an ayahuasca clinic in Upstate NY. I make all my own preparations and tend to the ritual aspects as well as guide people on trips. I've been doing this as my profession for several years now, feel free to ask any questions

1. How'd you find yourself doing this? 2. From your experience, how does ayahuasca compare to other psychedelics? 3. Any personal advice for someone interested in experimenting with these drugs?

1. I lived in Marin and worked as a software engineer and then later a research fellow for ten years (still sometimes on and off when they need me). Then I got really bored and moved across the country to start an art commune with old friends from college. We did our thing, went separate ways and I decided to invest what I had left in some land by a river / waterfall. Well one of the people we met from the art commune's dad was an exec, like VP level, for Fiji Water and one day we were driving around and I showed them the land and they loved it and bought it from me for double what I paid. I used that cash to buy a house outright in a dinky little town with enough leftover to mean I only had to work like 10-15 hours a week to be able to retire at 47. I didn't want to program, didn't want to be a landlord or do more flipping, so I went on an acid trip to figure it out and my friend floated the idea as a "startup" as a joke, but it's funny because he was associated with the Body Actualized Center which was basically the same thing before it got shut down (there's a bunch of articles about it, probably the biggest one to get busted in years). So yeah sorry to ramble but essentially I wanted a really weird part-time job and so I just invented one.

2. I personally am not the biggest fan of ayahuasca, but am in awe of it. I respect it and let it do its work upon people but I rarely take it and I have a feeling I never will again. I usually just smoke a bit of DMT mixed with THC shatter when I'm coming up with the client(s) to get into a similar headspace but other than that I'm sober and there to guide and work with the psychonauts. I've taken it four times, each time was different and each time I found new words and new ways to express myself but I'm much more careful about it now. LSD on the other hand I do about every month or so. It is, in my opinion, the finest substance known to man besides cannabis. If you want to have a profound physical and mental experience that takes over your body and melds your mind, by all means drink the potion. LSD lets you have a little bit more control and is less, in my opinion, 'religious'.

3. Do them with people you know and love. Don't go into it expecting wisdom or enlightenment and don't be surprised when the work you create or the thoughts you write are inane and obtuse once you see them through sober eyes. Do it because the mind and body and spirit need to be explored and known in ways that some may see as meandering or even farcical (how many times has acid been the butt of low-rent sitcom gags?) but to the determined can be a wellspring of experience and, perhaps most importantly, a joy that is inimitable.

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