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How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

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Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#101

This is stupid. The hard part about a Math degree is the number of hours you have to put in. If you cannot go to university full time, go part time. If you cannot go part time, you don't have enough time to actually learn any of these topics on your own. I've done these classes. It's typically 150 hours per class and it's not something you do after coming exhausted home from work either. After those 150 hours you'll…

I hope it is not stupid. I won't fit inside the university system at this point. They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste. I have about 20 hours on the weekend I can use towards accomplishing a class and I will have minimal waste since my curriculum is tailored directly for me. Of course it is only because I already wasted a decade learning math poorly that I know what I want to know and what I need to know to know it ;)

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#102
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem of contemporary mathematics is that it is unbelievably obfuscated to most people, unnecessarily so. So even if you a have super-simple thing, mathematicians invented ways how to completely obfuscate meaning (often unfortunately in order to achieve prestige and being considered elite as a form of intellectual pride). Imagine Dirichlet's box principle, a thing that a 5-year old should understand; now l…

> Imagine Dirichlet's box principle, a thing that a 5-year old should understand; now look at how is it taught in discrete mathematics. The theorem is "there's no injective function whose codomain is smaller than its domain". It's not stated this way because mathematicians are snobs or to impress students! abstraction is the very nature of mathematics. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstraction_(mathematics) "Abs…

On the other hand, I have to admit that understanding Quantum Mechanics as a complex probability theory is way way simpler than actually going through all the steps physicists did to get there. I will now reflect upon that in peace ;-)

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#103
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope this doesn't come across as brash. I don't mean it to, but I must disagree with your assertions (In my case at least). Learning advanced mathematics without university is completely possible. Because it is at your own learning pace. Not one of a University. I graduated several years ago with a BS in Computer Science, with a Focus on Networking. And during that time, I held 3 part time jobs while also be…

As a mathematician, and seeing what's on the article (and with no intention to downplay your achievements, which are impressive), that's not what I think of when I hear "advanced mathematics". Vectorial calculus and differential equations (ordinary, not partial) are basic courses in math degrees. For the things that the article explains, such as topology, group/ring theory, measure theory, functional analysis, etc (w…

My grasp of group theory, measure theory, and functional analysis are fairly weak, so maybe I'm not the best person to comment on this, but I think the problem may be that you were overoptimistic when you attempted to read those books. Usually when I read books on subjects I don't understand, I don't understand the book the first time I read it. Reading several different books on the subject helps. This requires a lot of persistence and tolerance for frustration. But that's true when you take a class, too!

As you say, though, you need to solve a lot of questions (which I interpret to mean "do a lot of exercises" or "do a lot of problem sets") to understand something. Reading a textbook without doing exercises is minimally useful, although it can help with the "roadmap"/"relationships" thing. Wikipedia is usually a pretty good roadmap, too, although it varies by field.

But you can also read textbooks and do exercises. This depends on the existence of, and access to, sufficient textbooks and exercises, but Library Genesis has recently extended that kind of access to most of the world. Taking functional analysis as your example, the 1978 edition of Kreyszig is on there, and it averages about two exercises per page, and has answers to the odd-numbered ones in the back. This quantity of exercises seems like it would probably be overkill if you were taking a class in functional analysis and could therefore visit the professor during office hours to clear up your doubts, but it seems like it would be ideal for self-study. And if two exercises per page isn't enough, you can get more exercises out of a different textbook, like Maddox (1970 edition on libgen) and Conway (first and second editions on libgen). You can find textbooks on scholar.google.com by searching for the names of general topics and then looking for "related articles" with thousands of citations, because for some reason people like to cite their textbooks.

Unless you can find a desperate adjunct math faculty member looking to make some extra bucks on the side or something, it's true that comparing your answers to the exercises to those given isn't as good as having a TA actually correct your homework. But it's usually good enough.

(Of course you should only download these books if that wouldn't be a violation of copyright, for example, if their authors granted libgen permission to redistribute them or you live in a country not party to the Berne Convention.)

Progress will be slow. But I think the key thing here is to start with low expectations: expect that you'll manage to read about 15 pages a week and understand half of them. I don't think you have to be a Terence-Tao-level genius.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just don't ask me to proof anything I don't mean to offend, but being able to prove things is generally the main focus of advanced mathematics. If you can't prove what you know, or at least have a rough outline of a proof you could construct after referring to something, you haven't learned it in the same way those at a university have.

>I don't mean to offend, but being able to prove things is generally the main focus of advanced mathematics. That rather depends on the field. For engineers, the main focus of advanced mathematics is to be able to apply it to real world problems.

The kind of math we engineers study in typical BS/MS curriculum is quite basic.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#105
post #98
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope this doesn't come across as brash. I don't mean it to, but I must disagree with your assertions (In my case at least). Learning advanced mathematics without university is completely possible. Because it is at your own learning pace. Not one of a University. I graduated several years ago with a BS in Computer Science, with a Focus on Networking. And during that time, I held 3 part time jobs while also be…

* the most advanced math I had was Algebra 2* How could you get a BS in CS without taking calculus courses? Which school did you go to?

It's kind of a shame that so many schools push you to study calculus in order to study CS; digital computers are algebraic machines, not analytical ones, pace Babbage. Combinatorics and graph theory would be far more useful.

(Although maybe this will change with machine learning.)

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#106
post #77
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really hope this doesn't come across as brash. I don't mean it to, but I must disagree with your assertions (In my case at least). Learning advanced mathematics without university is completely possible. Because it is at your own learning pace. Not one of a University. I graduated several years ago with a BS in Computer Science, with a Focus on Networking. And during that time, I held 3 part time jobs while also be…

I don't mean to be rude by saying this, but the truly-difficult advanced math - the stuff that's really hard to build an understanding of by yourself, because it's fairly distantly separated from any obvious applications or anything you'd readily have experience with, and heavily obfuscated (to newcomers) by the notation and pedantic proof-focused thoroughness (appropriate for academic math, less so for applications)…

If you don't consider the topics mungoid mentioned to be advanced math, perhaps you'll still consider this to be: http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.05797 It was accepted to Algebraic Geometry in May, (the Foundation Compositio Mathematica journal, not JAG), so it will probably appear online sometime around December. So far I've received three invitations to visit two different universities as a result of this paper. (search for "Price" on these pages: http://www2.math.binghamton.edu/p/seminars/arit http://www2.math.binghamton.edu/p/seminars/arit/spring2016 , I will also be travelling to a German university in October but unfortunately I have no evidence to show for this currently). I say this as someone who left undergrad after four terms and is mostly self-taught, from such resources as books, online papers, and wikipedia.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#107

This is stupid. The hard part about a Math degree is the number of hours you have to put in. If you cannot go to university full time, go part time. If you cannot go part time, you don't have enough time to actually learn any of these topics on your own. I've done these classes. It's typically 150 hours per class and it's not something you do after coming exhausted home from work either. After those 150 hours you'll…

I have studied a lot of mathematics on my own. I did study physics as an undergrad.

But, I went back and studied Real Analysis, Measure Theory, Combinatorics, Topology, and Stochastic Calculus.

I have found, though, that while I have a decent grasp of the concepts my understanding and ability to solve problems isn't as strong as the math grad students who studied these topics deeply.

I have found the knowledge useful, but I would agree that it would be hard to achieve the same results.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#108

This is stupid. The hard part about a Math degree is the number of hours you have to put in. If you cannot go to university full time, go part time. If you cannot go part time, you don't have enough time to actually learn any of these topics on your own. I've done these classes. It's typically 150 hours per class and it's not something you do after coming exhausted home from work either. After those 150 hours you'll…

I hope it is not stupid. I won't fit inside the university system at this point. They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste. I have about 20 hours on the weekend I can use towards accomplishing a class and I will have minimal waste since my curriculum is tailored directly for me. Of course it is only because I already wasted a decade learning math poorly that I know what I want to kno…

> They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste

Then find a lower-tier university. In any densely populated region there will be at least one that's happy to take your tuition money to let you enroll in a non-degree-earning course of study.

You'll only have an issue if you want a degree which, BTW, is typically intended to be broader than a narrow course of study in a particular area of expertise.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#109
post #89

This is stupid. The hard part about a Math degree is the number of hours you have to put in. If you cannot go to university full time, go part time. If you cannot go part time, you don't have enough time to actually learn any of these topics on your own. I've done these classes. It's typically 150 hours per class and it's not something you do after coming exhausted home from work either. After those 150 hours you'll…

Sometimes the issue isn't time - it's money and access to schooling. Just because you've had the access, doesn't mean others do - and there are many, many who don't.

> Just because you've had the access, doesn't mean others do...

I don't think that the author of the post you're responding to is making any sort of normative claim.

> Sometimes the issue isn't time - it's money and access to schooling

I think the author is suggesting that if you have that kind of free time, then you either a) must be independently wealthy, or else that b) trading some of that free time for cash you can use to buy credit hours is a net positive because the guidance is worth it (again, assuming your goal is to learn math as opposed to eg obtain a uni degree).

I agree that's not necessarily a good assumption globally, but it's probably a decent assumption for almost everyone in the west, both in terms of self-learning capabilities and in terms of available funds.

Re: How to Learn Advanced Mathematics Without Heading to University – Part 3

#110

This is stupid. The hard part about a Math degree is the number of hours you have to put in. If you cannot go to university full time, go part time. If you cannot go part time, you don't have enough time to actually learn any of these topics on your own. I've done these classes. It's typically 150 hours per class and it's not something you do after coming exhausted home from work either. After those 150 hours you'll…

I hope it is not stupid. I won't fit inside the university system at this point. They would make me take courses on subjects I already know which is a waste. I have about 20 hours on the weekend I can use towards accomplishing a class and I will have minimal waste since my curriculum is tailored directly for me. Of course it is only because I already wasted a decade learning math poorly that I know what I want to kno…

Prerequisites for classes are oftentimes a suggestion, you can easily get into a class you don't meet the prerequisites for by simply signing up for the class (most class registration systems don't bar this), or by emailing the professor and getting an override. Furthermore, if you're a non-degree seeking student, the university cares very little about you, so you can skate by with a lot more freedom with classes.
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