Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#101

Post by zzalpha » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 3:40 AM UTC

smm2000 wrote: post #67

themartorana wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in my experience or the experiences of anyone I know or work with.

A few times we got "work from home" day when teams moved from one building to another. You would expect more emails that day than usual as you could not just talk in person. Well, both number of email and commits went down significantly which tells me that people mostly "worked" from home that day.

That was a one-off event. Folks who don't regularly remote work will think of that as a "treat". In their minds they're probably viewing it as an unofficial day off.

Assuming that's comparable to a true remote work policy is silly.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#102

Post by logicallee » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 3:42 AM UTC

boardwaalk wrote: post #100

gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

I'm not being facetious, but this might be a personal problem (not being able to get your mind off of work). For people who experience this, something like meditation might help, seriously. I certainly wouldn't fault an employer. I'd love a 30 work week (if I wasn't trying to fast track towards retirement): those 10 hours (or more if working 4 days and not having to commute one weekday) would be entirely mine.

gfody's description reads to me like a description of genius-level work. it's not "not being able to get your mind off of work". it's, wow, you're a genius for being able to do this at all - it's not some fungible thing anyone could do instead of you. yours sounds like the description of more fungible work, that could be done by someone else and for which hours may even be a good measure. it just doesn't sound like you two are talking about the same thing.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#103

Post by guy_c » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 3:45 AM UTC

gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

I think this applies to many roles, not just engineering. I could imagine a copy-writer getting stuck on some exact word choice, a salesperson mulling over every reaction and word from a previous meeting. A designer taking in everything the see.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#104

Post by throwaway_amzn » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 3:46 AM UTC

abbasaamer wrote: post #43

zzalpha wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Precisely. Amazon is a sweatshop. The expectation is salaried employees put in ungodly hours. All this is doing is giving people more freedom to burn themselves out at home, while further blurring the lines between work and life and throwing in a 25% pay cut as the cherry on top. It's like the opposite of Google campus life, but with the same goal.

"Amazon is a sweatshop" I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. I work in Alexa and the work environment on my team is pretty awesome. Lots of freedom to try new things, good work life balance, and generally a high level of respect for engineers. I turned down Google to come here and I have no regrets (though not to imply that Google isn't equally awesome).

Even in Alexa there are some teams that are being pushed too hard. I work for Alexa as well and there is plenty of burn out and "sweatshop" teams in our org. It really varies a lot from team to team and what that team's role is.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#105

Post by nostrebored » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 4:06 AM UTC

smb06 wrote: post #95

theDoug wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not better, it's just a different class of employee.

Exactly. Most of the people who say "Oh its not that bad at Amazon" are white collared workers who are living in their bubble and don't know the hardships of different class of employees.

Most of the white collar people here have never been to a town that Amazon opened a warehouse in and actually talked to people there. I have, and reception is generally quite good. Anti-Amazonism is something I associate with upper middle class people.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#106

Post by flamedoge » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 4:10 AM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #27

randyrand wrote: post #25

When I was at amazon I was routinely putting in 170hr+ work weeks. It was impossible.

I'm gonna assume you meant 70+, not 170+, unless you're a time traveller... Or you really did mean it was impossible, in which case... math checks out.

He was doing 4 men's jobs, but not even close to 10xer's 400 hr/wk

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#107

Post by malcolmgreaves » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 4:11 AM UTC

spectrum1234 wrote: post #42

This is fantastic news. It's absurd that it's basically impossible to have a successful career working a bit less than full time. This is way overdue in the modern world and hopefully becomes an option in more companies going forward.

There's a 25℅ reduction in pay. This policy is another one of Amazon's "screw the worker" policies.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#108

Post by crucifiction » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 4:14 AM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #65

abbasaamer wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Amazon is a sweatshop" I wouldn't agree with this broad generalization. I work in Alexa and the work environment on my team is pretty awesome. Lots of freedom to try new things, good work life balance, and generally a high level of respect for engineers. I turned down Google to come here and I have no regrets (though not to imply that Google isn't equally awesome).

How many tech companies do you know where the current and former employees have come together to create websites like this? https://sites.google.com/site/thefaceofamazon/home

It all started with the warehouse worker complaints, which were general complaints that any warehouse worker will have and not really egregious comparatively. This fed into a media narrative and causes sites like that to pop up.

When startups ask a lot of their employees its showered in praise. When Elon Musk demands 100 work weeks, people are in awe of how great he is. When Nest does the same people squint because Google bought them.

I know a lot of Googlers, most put in ~50-60 hour weeks but get free lunch so its ok I guess? Same with Apple.

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#109

Post by crucifiction » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 4:17 AM UTC

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #107

spectrum1234 wrote: post #42

This is fantastic news. It's absurd that it's basically impossible to have a successful career working a bit less than full time. This is way overdue in the modern world and hopefully becomes an option in more companies going forward.

There's a 25℅ reduction in pay. This policy is another one of Amazon's "screw the worker" policies.

Working 75% of the time for 75% of the pay is screwing the worker?

Re: Amazon is piloting teams with a 30-hour workweek

#110

Post by jfoster » Sat, Aug 27, 2016, 4:18 AM UTC

gfody wrote: post #37

Something about this bothers me. Time-keeping is already not straightforward for an engineer. Because the work is done in our heads and doesn't necessarily stop just because the workday is over. You don't have to be sitting at a keyboard for your head to be grinding on a problem. More often some problem takes hold of you, occupying some mental bandwidth even while you're away, at home trying to enjoy time with your f…

Does this mean you'd consider a 60 hour work week an improvement? Is 40 hours the perfect number for some reason? At what point are we just resisting any change to the status quo?