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Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

thesmartset.com

101–110 of 129 posts

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#101
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you regard UBI as foolish given that real-world context? I'm interested as opinions for and against it do tend to be from 30,000 feet.

The danger I see with UBI, is (in addition to possible inflation, etc.) is that commentators on HN tend to be of higher education, curious, and simply "hackers". Most people here would love to be payed money so they could sit and program some cool OSS, start a new company or simply change the world. For them, UBI is fantastic. How many more Googles/GNUs/Apples would there be if engineers could quit existing companies…

>The problem is that there are a lot of people who don't care for that. You pay them money, they'll sit playing Video games, sports, or simply bum around.

Which is cheaper than housing even a small number of them in prisons. One of the hopes is that by eliminating much of the desperateness from poverty, we'll save a bundle from the accompanying reduction in crime.

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem you point to is self-limiting. Regardless of the nominal level of UBI, it won't provide a satisfactory income unless a sufficient number of people remain working to provide the goods and services required to provide a satisfying style of life for the UBI-only recipients and sufficient additional value to workers for them to continue working. Prices will adjust to make this the case. As the quality of life…

In other words, the tragedy of the commons. My biggest concern with the UBI is that looking back at societies with UBI (such as the upper class Europe of the Middle Ages through the 19th century), for every Newton or Voltaire were many more unknown nobles who spent their life grooming their mustaches. I don't believe our society is that much better now.

We'd have to decide how many mustache groomers each Voltaire or Newton is worth before deciding if it's a tragedy, no?

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a breath.

It just sucks that the HN mods think it's fine for dishonest ideological warriors like Jerf to casually conflate modern academia and Stalin, just because he did so without using profanity. It's such an intense and personal attack; and it's so wildly dishonest... It completely eliminates all possibility of a useful conversation in a single sentence. It's poo.

I think you're taking something personally that isn't at all intended that way, and I think that's making it difficult for you to appreciate the nuance in the statement to which you've responded. I understand why and I don't blame you for it, but I hope you're able to take a step back from the passion of the moment and reconsider; on the one hand, I think there's useful insight here, and on the other, I know it's not pleasant to feel yourself put so thoroughly on the defensive that you have to respond this aggressively, and I'm sorry to see anyone go through that, especially when it may not actually be necessary.

'jerf didn't say that academia is evil because Stalin, but rather that intellectualism which becomes too far divorced from reality can be an extremely dangerous force; he cited Soviet central economic planning as an extreme example of the sort of danger to which he refers.

I don't think it is controversial to say that Soviet economic policies were derived primarily from a political theory which was developed by people whom it's accurate to describe as "intellectuals", in the demonymic usage we seem to be taking as conventional in this thread. I also don't think it's controversial to say that these policies produced widespread, severe privation among the population on whom they were tried.

And I don't think it is accurate, or fair, to say that 'jerf meant this example as a general indictment of modern academia. Nothing in his comment seems to me to suggest anything of the sort. But I can see how, if I were myself an academic and an "intellectual", I might take some of what he did say as a very direct attack on my identity and sense of self-worth, and respond to that rather than to the arguments actually being made.

I hope I'm not coming across as patronizing here. I'm really not trying to be. It's just that, as a tradesman, I don't really have a dog in this fight, and as someone who's worked among academics in the past, I've had the opportunity to develop some insight into some patterns of thought which people who work in that paradigm might share. Among those, I think, is a general feeling of being constantly under attack by a populace which is both ignorant of what science and academia actually do, on the one hand, and on the other deliberately misinformed by a variety of demagogues for their own political benefit.

It wouldn't surprise me to see someone, who is accustomed to what I'd almost call this siege mentality, to react aggressively to anything which looked even a little like a critical analysis of the value of academia or intellectualism as a whole. It's very natural to respond in such fashion to an attack on one's livelihood. But I don't think what is going on here really is such an attack, and maybe the conversation we could all have about what 'jerf is saying would be more interesting and mutually satisfactory than the one we currently seem to be having.

Either that, or I'm completely wrong about what's going on and I've totally misread the entire situation. I don't think that's the case, but how can I be sure?

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#104

>For generations, populists of various kinds have argued that intellectuals are unworldly individuals out of touch with the experiences and values of most of their fellow citizens. While anti-intellectual populists have often been wrong about the gold standard or the single tax or other issues, by and large they have been right about intellectuals. So... intellectuals were right about the issues that they were focuse…

> So... intellectuals were right about the issues that they were focused on, but somehow populists are right that they are out of touch? Those seem contradictory to me

One can be factually correct yet emotionally incorrect (indeed, in my experience that's been at the root of some nasty interpersonal unpleasantness).

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#105

>For generations, populists of various kinds have argued that intellectuals are unworldly individuals out of touch with the experiences and values of most of their fellow citizens. While anti-intellectual populists have often been wrong about the gold standard or the single tax or other issues, by and large they have been right about intellectuals. So... intellectuals were right about the issues that they were focuse…

>For generations, populists of various kinds have argued that intellectuals are unworldly individuals out of touch with the experiences and values of most of their fellow citizens. While anti-intellectual populists have often been wrong about the gold standard or the single tax or other issues, by and large they have been right about intellectuals.

I was a little confused by this statement. I thought that the populists of yore like William Jennings Bryant were opposed to the gold standard, and the modern consensus is that the gold standard is a bad thing. So weren't the populists right about it?

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#106
post #71
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that in Israel there's shortage in those professions, but the pay isn't good. So maybe it's more complex that simple supply vs demand ?

i can't think of any reason why basic economic principles wouldn't apply.

Say you have a small factory ,employing 50 older welders doing a risky job at relatively little pay.

Say you need 10 more welders - but those guys really don't like risk so they would need a big increase in the salary, maybe 50%-100%. But you know that than the word will get out and the older workers will demand similar salaries.

So it's a big jump in total labor-costs per work-unit. And let's not forget - revenue per employee can be quite limited in many places. So maybe paying low is the better state for the business.

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#107
What a confusing article and discussion! I have a vague feeling we are witnessing a very significant breakdown of something, but I'm not sure what it is. So I'll just post some random thoughts

- The idea of educating intelligenzia by having them work on the fields for a year sounds a bit too much like the cultural revolution of China in the 1960's. It was bad.

- It seems very silly to me to question the value of education. Learning about earlier mistakes is a great way to avoid repeating those mistakes. Learning is good.

- If education is only available for those with a lot of wealth, it certainly brings about both an alienating effect and a lot of bitterness. That's too bad. I'm from a country with free universities and government subsidized students' loans. I think it's a good system, couldn't have afforded any university education without it, being from a poor family.

- In the discussion an idea seems to loom that a less informed opinion is evened out by the fact that more people share it. This I can not abide, although it is the basic idea of democracy. I always thought democracy is mostly a safety measure against tyrants and a pretty ineffective mode of government in its weakest. An enlightened democracy is much better than a populist one. Both are better than a non-democracy, at least most of the time.

- The difference between an enlightened democracy and a populist democracy is evident in its leaders. John Stuart Mill was an enlightened democrat for one. The bad ones can be spotted out by their spitefulness.

- Too bad some populists riding on the tide of anti-intellectualism have managed to turn democracies into tyrannies. Sometimes ships capsize.

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#108
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creating real neighborhood community (work, education, family, etc) is the best solution... it's just really hard to do! Especially since we've largely abandoned previous institutions that provided this: regular neighborhood hangout spots, social clubs, adult recreational leagues, and especially churches. > unions are overall good ideas Maybe. Depends. I frequently see union demands oriented around last decade's op…

> Especially since we've largely abandoned previous institutions True, though I think new institutions will come back. Things like Meetup groups seem to be gaining more traction--The groups are just slow to adoption because they're so new that nobody can be grandfathered in yet by friends or family who have been long-term members. > Unions are overall good ideas -- Maybe. Depends. I see unions as just another corpora…

Unions are monopolies by their nature - it's not something they become. They only exist due to a statutory exemption of anti-trust law. I personally have not been able find a justification for a monopoly of any kind in a free society.

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#109
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Creating real neighborhood community (work, education, family, etc) is the best solution... it's just really hard to do! Especially since we've largely abandoned previous institutions that provided this: regular neighborhood hangout spots, social clubs, adult recreational leagues, and especially churches. > unions are overall good ideas Maybe. Depends. I frequently see union demands oriented around last decade's op…

> Especially since we've largely abandoned previous institutions True, though I think new institutions will come back. Things like Meetup groups seem to be gaining more traction--The groups are just slow to adoption because they're so new that nobody can be grandfathered in yet by friends or family who have been long-term members. > Unions are overall good ideas -- Maybe. Depends. I see unions as just another corpora…

I don't see what benefits unions provide other than relieving their members from participating in a free market. The inefficiencies of such relief being paid for by consumers that have no choice in the matter.

Re: Why professors, pundits, and policy wonks misunderstand the world

#110

Couldn't I just as easily state "the french-fry cook doesn't know anything about the life of a philosopher"? Everybody's view of the world is limited by their own experiences. Does that mean everybody therefore misunderstands the world?

Yes, you certainly could state that. I think the point is that the french fry cook is much less likely to have an outsized influence on public policy compared to the philosopher/professor/pundit.

And, in particular, there are many, many more french fry cooks than philosophers.

So the french fry cook understands the perspective of a larger proportion of people in the world than the philosopher does.

Or so the argument goes. I'd disagree -- a large part of academic education, the humanities, is about learning to understand the perspectives of others. I'd say the philosopher understands the french fry cook's perspective better than vice versa, and that the philosopher is better positioned to misunderstand /less/ across all walks of life (though misunderstanding is inevitable) than most everyone else.

For intellectuals trained exclusively in STEM/social science who sprint from the humanities as quickly as humanly possible, yes the critique is spot on.

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