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Fentanyl, a stealth killer

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101–110 of 153 posts

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#101
In the US you can't do research about a product then go out and buy quality product from a quality provider. That's really where I see a lot of the problems with all of this.

Yes there's a failure of information somewhere and people that fall through the cracks should be able to find their way out again, but the root of the problem stems from publicly vilifying people and actions that should be legal. Regulating all drugs like cigarettes, for example, would make it so they wouldn't have to get grade E stuff from some alley, we'd stop imprisoning people that may just need help and we could have discussions in the open about abuse. Privately vilify all you want, but the government should be mute on people's preferences as long as they are capable of making decisions, there's mandatory information disclosure surrounding dangerous drugs and companies can't lie about what they're selling.

Heroine for better or worse is a product that people are willing to go far out of their way to purchase and that goes for nearly all drugs. I would never do it and I believe if you made it legal, most people not doing it today wouldn't pick it up. We really need to get the idea that legal === government endorsement out of our heads.

We do things because the pros of doing them outweigh the cons of not doing them. Information around drugs, proper, honest and often, deters dangerous adoption.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone was suffering from pain and couldn't even buy Ibuprofen due to an oppressive government and shitty societal view, one might not be surprised if they steal to get life-changing medicine. The fact a "normal" person would rob an older woman for an essential medicine should reflect more on the society than the patient.

That doesn't make any sense. Having seen a fair amount of shit, I go back and forth. Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. This isn't a headache, that is theft. Clearly, there is a difference between opportunistically taking a few pills and working your way into someones life to rob them repeatedly. This reflects on the person and while I don't know i…

Addiction is way less harmful if it's legal. Clean needles, consistent dosages, better healthcare, no stealing/theft/lying/etc. If it's legal it's just a physical dependence. Other physical dependencies we have include: food, water, and air and we manage those OK.

I agree, heroin is nasty stuff. But, we cannot eradicate it. In a free and liberal society, it's a farce that it's even a choice. It's a choice between denial and acceptance of reality. Accept it, lean in, fix things in a way that goes with the grain of human nature, not against it. (E.g. it's human nature to assume harm won't befall them so they are not dissuaded from a harmful thing. So, reduce the harm as much as you can.)

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#103
post #22

The mention of Fentanyl here is pure clickbait. Fentanyl is pretty well known amongst opiate addicts (and has been for a while). Everyone knows it's dangerous, including dealers, who like to avoid killing their customers and catching murder charges, believe it or not. Aside from that and a bit of gateway drug BS towards the beginning, this is a solid and somewhat moving, if long, account of the standard Heroin story,…

Hate to break it to you but your dealer does not give a fuck about your health. It is extremely difficult for the police to find the dealer of a dead person, and then very difficult to prove the elements needed for a murder charge. The police do not even try to find dealers of drug deaths, unless the victim is a celebrity. Furthermore, every heroin dealer knows that each of their clients is likely to go into a downwa…

There are also plenty of incompetent dealers like the one here who mixed up his crack and fentanyl stash causing 39 ODs http://vancouversun.com/news/crime/36-drug-overdoses-in-one-...

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#104
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the predicate "wasn't allowed" is even more accurate. She was prohibited, legally, to get properly labelled medication. Again, would you have the same attitude if her options for depression were "steal SSRIs from a pharma company" or "buy from someone that gets unlabeled, unmonitored shit from China, resold by whoever?"

Forgive me if this is wrong, but are you really arguing for the over-the-counter sale of chemically addicting drugs, premised on the actions of junkies? Won't that just create more junkies? Alcohol is chemically addictive, sold over the counter, and is currently the fourth leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.

> Alcohol is chemically addictive, sold over the counter, and is currently the fourth leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.

Yes and honestly nobody cares because it's big business and is societally acceptable.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone was suffering from pain and couldn't even buy Ibuprofen due to an oppressive government and shitty societal view, one might not be surprised if they steal to get life-changing medicine. The fact a "normal" person would rob an older woman for an essential medicine should reflect more on the society than the patient.

That doesn't make any sense. Having seen a fair amount of shit, I go back and forth. Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. This isn't a headache, that is theft. Clearly, there is a difference between opportunistically taking a few pills and working your way into someones life to rob them repeatedly. This reflects on the person and while I don't know i…

> Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts.

Didn't Portugal legalize heroin and realize that this was completely false?

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#106
I talked to a friend of mine today who has a serious opiate addiction. It is heartbreaking. He is on the verge of losing what he has left to lose, but I don't know if there is anything to do. He refuses to seek treatment. I think his options are running out.

I've had my problems in life, specifically with mental illness and benzo addiction, but I'm thankful that I never went the opiate route.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#107
post #3

Just because fentanyl has a shit therapeutic index doesn't mean it has a high body count (it gets used just fine even in tandem with other depressants in clinical circumstances...) - I would say the problem is more in the hands of the tough-on-crime lawmakers who seem to lack, at least in my neck of the woods, remorse. Also, look up sufentanil, and once you feel you're ready, carfentanil.. Also, yes, yes, fentanyl is…

Also, look up sufentanil, and once you feel you're ready, carfentanil.. So I did. And now my browser history is filled with random message boards of people discussing their tripping experiences with various chemicals. Also learned that most people consider Carfentanil crazy dangerous. And his bigger brother Ohmefentanyl is straight up poison.

...People are shooting up Wildnil?!?!?! I assume they're mostly dying.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#108
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me if this is wrong, but are you really arguing for the over-the-counter sale of chemically addicting drugs, premised on the actions of junkies? Won't that just create more junkies? Alcohol is chemically addictive, sold over the counter, and is currently the fourth leading cause of preventable death in the U.S.

Opiates are not anywhere nearly as harmful as alcohol. Apart from overdosing, there's very little side effect, generally. (Some people don't tolerate them well.) The health issues that junkies have is usually due to poor hygiene - many places don't even let them buy needles! The legal aspects cause all of this. They raise prices, make supply hard, encourage fraud, discourage help, increase the terrible social stigma.…

I'm curious, you seem very passionate about this topic, why is that?

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. Having seen a fair amount of shit, I go back and forth. Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. This isn't a headache, that is theft. Clearly, there is a difference between opportunistically taking a few pills and working your way into someones life to rob them repeatedly. This reflects on the person and while I don't know i…

> Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. Didn't Portugal legalize heroin and realize that this was completely false?

Decriminalized. It's still illegal to consume, but not a crime - people aren't sent to jail or fined. Selling, of course, is illegal and a crime.

Re: Fentanyl, a stealth killer

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone was suffering from pain and couldn't even buy Ibuprofen due to an oppressive government and shitty societal view, one might not be surprised if they steal to get life-changing medicine. The fact a "normal" person would rob an older woman for an essential medicine should reflect more on the society than the patient.

That doesn't make any sense. Having seen a fair amount of shit, I go back and forth. Should heroin be legal? It would certainly lower the price, but it would definitely create more addicts. This isn't a headache, that is theft. Clearly, there is a difference between opportunistically taking a few pills and working your way into someones life to rob them repeatedly. This reflects on the person and while I don't know i…

I can certainly intellectually understand why society has banned this.

But don't you see that opiates only make people do these horrible things because they're banned!? Opiates don't turn people into devastatingly manipulative thieves, they turn them into people who will do anything to get opiates. If you changed two things, junkies would be no more likely to engage in destructive behaviors like theft than alcholic or smokers. Those two things are making opiates cheap and easy to get (regulate them like cigarettes, say), and eliminating the employment stigma. Opiates aren't great for productivity, but they are much less of an impairment than alcohol, and alcoholics are almost always functional unless they also suffer mental health issues. Opiates slow down thoughts and movements somewhat, and they make you feel really good, but they don't make you stupid or rash like alcohol.

That's not to say that there wouldn't be problems with opiates. You'd probably have as many people on opiates on the road as we currently have drunk drivers (again, they probably wouldn't be as bad, because while opiates slow reaction times and reduce alertness, they don't make the user think they can do things they can't). And junkies would probably still squander their potential to an extent, and mothers of brilliant children who take up opiates instead of going to college might be devastated. But I think most of the new addicts that would be created by legalization would be people who would otherwise become alcoholics, people just looking for an escape, and society prefering clean opiates over alcohol would do wonders for public health.

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