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Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

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Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#101

Post by gonzo41 »

camperman wrote: post #98
13of40 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in an infantry exercise at JBLM where they were firing artillery from right next to our position, and I remember every tenth round or so would have a defect that made it go zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzoooooommmm when it came out of the barrel.

Ah yes, the whistling round. On the 105mm Light Gun this was from small gaps in the copper jacket around the shell that whistled when spinning.

120mm rocket artillery incoming near Talil. Felt like an earthquake. Was great fun at the time, now I think back and wow...

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#102

Post by saiya-jin »

abrie wrote: post #83
grellas wrote: post #13

There is no more eerie account of what it was like to be a foot soldier caught up in trench warfare than Arthur Guy Empey's book "Over the Top" (1917). It is available free as a Kindle ebook: https://www.amazon.com/Over-Top-Arthur-Guy-Empey-ebook/dp/B0... (some reviews can be found here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1517707.Over_The_Top ) Empey was an American who managed to get in the mix with the British sold…

The posted article lacks substance, but I read "Over the Top" because of your comment. It is excellent. Thank you. I found my copy on archive.org[0]. I read it alongside "The Arms of Krupp"[1], and found the combination highly synergistic. The sensation of perspective is multiplied further if read with "All Quiet on the Western Front". [0] https://archive.org/details/overtopbyamerica00empe [1] https://openlibrary.org…

"All Quiet on the Western Front" - the only book from cca 40 we were forced to read during high school classes that really consumed me - the horrors described, the progressive apathy to death all around and almost total randomness of survival... far from usual poetry. Still cannot comprehend such madness that was happening 100 years ago

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#104

Post by saiya-jin »

beloch wrote: post #49

Imagine being a member of an attack force following a creeping barrage, especially before it was perfected and short-falling shells were expected to kill a significant fraction of your comrades. Willfully walking into that kind of hell simply blows my mind.

to refuse would mean facing military trial with probable result of execution by firing squad, maybe composed from your comrades

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#105

Post by pbhjpbhj »

beloch wrote: post #49

Imagine being a member of an attack force following a creeping barrage, especially before it was perfected and short-falling shells were expected to kill a significant fraction of your comrades. Willfully walking into that kind of hell simply blows my mind.

>Willfully walking into that kind of hell simply blows my mind. //

Walk or get shot for desertion, not sure how wilful it was. Yes, you may have signed up willingly before knowing the horror that awaited you, but still ...

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#106

Post by pbhjpbhj »

rdl wrote: post #84

The amazing thing to me, aside from the inhumanity of the war and weirdly anachronistic things like the French cavalry uniforms and tactics at the beginning of the war, was that shell shock/PTSD/etc. wasn't recognized as a real thing, instead the armies would execute soldiers for cowardice. At least many of those have been posthumously (and far later) pardoned, not that it really makes much difference.

>instead the armies would execute soldiers for cowardice //

Was it not a necessity (on the basis of "winning" the trench warfare)?

If you can go home to a nice feather bed and being looked after in a care home without even the appearance of an injury by presenting as having PTSD/shell-shock then the effect on moral and ability to force men to go over-the-top with the threat of capital punishment for desertion is going to be detrimental to the offensive capabilities. Here's me 6-inches deep in mud sitting on a firing step, thirsty and flea-bitten, nursing my shrapnel wound; there's Joe going home without a scratch on him??

Cowardice and PTSD/shell-shock probably present in similar ways on a battlefield too - I'm a huge coward, I'm not trying to suggest anyone had less honour than they did, just that I'd expect to be a gibbering wreck without any shell-shock.

With the tactics employed it looks like it was a numbers game, to play that game they couldn't afford compassion for the fighting men of either side.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#107

Post by JoeAltmaier »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #106
rdl wrote: post #84

The amazing thing to me, aside from the inhumanity of the war and weirdly anachronistic things like the French cavalry uniforms and tactics at the beginning of the war, was that shell shock/PTSD/etc. wasn't recognized as a real thing, instead the armies would execute soldiers for cowardice. At least many of those have been posthumously (and far later) pardoned, not that it really makes much difference.

>instead the armies would execute soldiers for cowardice // Was it not a necessity (on the basis of "winning" the trench warfare)? If you can go home to a nice feather bed and being looked after in a care home without even the appearance of an injury by presenting as having PTSD/shell-shock then the effect on moral and ability to force men to go over-the-top with the threat of capital punishment for desertion is goin…

Strangely it had no impact on the outcome. Marching millions of men 'over the top' to be mowed down by machine guns was pointless. Even though the tactic failed utterly, they kept doing it. Out of desperation? They executed a generation.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#108

Post by pbhjpbhj »

camtarn wrote: post #96
Someone wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There also were mining operations at enormous scale ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_on_the_first_day_of_th... ) About a year later, the battle of Messines ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_in_the_Battle_of_Messi... ) saw larger mines, some of which with over 40,000 kg of explosives. Five of them weren't detonated. One of those exploded in 1955 after a lightning strike. Most likely, four others are still…

There's a good BBC article on it here, with a lot of detail about the people behind the tunnelling schemes, and the horror of digging in complete silence, listening out for enemy miners who might be just inches away: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-36685270

Glad you posted that, didn't know where I'd read it. Good read on an aspect of the trench war I hadn't heard about before.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#109

Post by apozem »

brudgers wrote: post #53

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks, Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge, Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs, And towards our distant rest began to trudge. Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots, But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind; Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots Of gas-shells dropping softly behind. Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbl…

Thank you for sharing this. A beautiful, evocative passage that captures the emotion of the conflict.

Re: Anatomy of a World War I Artillery Barrage

#110

Post by apozem »

zwily wrote: post #77
dexterdog wrote: post #12

If this piques your interest at all I highly recommend Dan Carlin's Hardcore History where he did 6 parts and about 18 hours on WWI from a mostly military history perspective. He also did a shorter one on the eastern front in WWII.

Can't second this recommendation enough. I used to take part in the whole "haha French military" nonsense... Not anymore.

Me too. After hearing what the French army suffered through at Verdun, I don't know how anyone could question their courage or tenacity.
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