Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#101

Post by BurningFrog » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 4:52 AM UTC

rahimnathwani wrote: post #87

BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two parties in the rental car transaction: Hertz Driver The AirBnB transaction has three parties: AirBnB Host Guest While you can construct sentences that look similar for both cases, and the word "license" is used in both contexts, it's a fundamentally different dynamic.

"The AirBnB transaction has three parties" That's incorrect. AirBnB provides a platform on which hosts can list their properties. There are two parties to that transaction. In case you're talking about the subsequent 'rental' transaction, AirBnB is pretty clear that that's between the host and the guest. See section 5 of their ToS: https://www.airbnb.com/terms

You seem to ask us to pretend those two transactions are unrelated, but I don't understand why.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#102

Post by abannin » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 4:54 AM UTC

Kinda surprised that no one is debating jurisdiction here. Why federal and not state courts? Are federal judges more friendly to this type of case?

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#103

Post by rahimnathwani » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:10 AM UTC

ot wrote: post #84

BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two parties in the rental car transaction: Hertz Driver The AirBnB transaction has three parties: AirBnB Host Guest While you can construct sentences that look similar for both cases, and the word "license" is used in both contexts, it's a fundamentally different dynamic.

The transaction is more like Host Airbnb Guest All the communication (and the billing) happens through the platform.

The post is about requirements on AirBnB when a property is listed. There is no guest involved when that happens. There is only AirBnB and the host.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#104

Post by bobthepanda » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:16 AM UTC

spikels wrote: post #91

holografix wrote: post #76

Can't help but think of the obvious time and time again with the faux-sharing economy. Sharing is a pathetic use of neural linguistics, you're not sharing, your not doing anyone a kindness, you're making money and you're providing a service. Uber and Airbnb will be regulated legislative or through unions. Ask yourself just wtf are cabs so much more inefficient than Uber and hotels more expensive then Airbnb? Few driv…

Sharing may not be the best name but there is clearly value to be gained by using valuable assets like cars, housing and spare time more intensively. What's fundamentally wrong with this?

Housing has the issue that someone who is there for a few days at most does not really have any incentive to care about their neighbors or the property they are staying in. Most people would not buy an apartment next to a hotel room.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#105

Post by bduerst » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:21 AM UTC

holografix wrote: post #76

Can't help but think of the obvious time and time again with the faux-sharing economy. Sharing is a pathetic use of neural linguistics, you're not sharing, your not doing anyone a kindness, you're making money and you're providing a service. Uber and Airbnb will be regulated legislative or through unions. Ask yourself just wtf are cabs so much more inefficient than Uber and hotels more expensive then Airbnb? Few driv…

I don't think unionization will be possible with Uber drivers. Uber doesn't own the cars and doesn't technically employ the drivers (in most states) - so there isn't any way for the Uber drivers to organize, collude, and force ranks.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#106

Post by bduerst » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:24 AM UTC

ot wrote: post #81

ggreer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's nothing so silly. As a counterpoint to the Examiner's piece, please read Airbnb's post about the proposed law: https://www.airbnbaction.com/an-update-for-our-community-in-... Basically, the city wants to hold Airbnb responsible for user-generated content. The city also wants Airbnb to hand over users' personal information. Both the EFF and the Center for Democracy & Technology think that these requirements viola…

> Basically, the city wants to hold Airbnb responsible for user-generated content. Airbnb gets paid for the rentals, not for the listings. Also, they actively control the content (try putting an URL in the listing). Mistaking Airbnb for a publishing medium for user-generated content seems disingenuous at best.

I think it's a false dichotomy to say they're either/or - why cant't they be both?

If they're actively controlling user generated content, then it's obvious they benefit from better content.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#107

Post by jacobolus » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:26 AM UTC

exclusiv wrote: post #92

calbear81 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're being downvoted because you are not considering land use and zoning issues. Hosts need to register to ensure that they don't convert their properties into full time hotels in buildings designed for residential use.

But mostly the city wants to ensure they get paid and keep the lodging industry off their backs. Hotels pay occupancy taxes and want AirBnBs to have that encumbrance. I have a property in an area that has it all figured out and I had to get it certified by an inspector, pay some fees, and submit occupancy taxes. Most skirt the laws. Chicago did it right in my opinion by requiring AirBnB to manage and submit the taxes…

The city is facing huge pressure from local residents because the price of housing has gone up dramatically in the past few years. Property owners taking rental properties off the market to turn them into unlicensed full-time hotels through Airbnb further reduces housing stock, in addition to forcing a bunch of negative externalities onto neighbors who have little recourse. Most local residents who aren’t themselves Airbnb hosts are on the city’s side here.

The hotel industry is certainly unhappy with Airbnb, but they’re far from the only ones.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#108

Post by mkhpalm » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:41 AM UTC

bduerst wrote: post #105

holografix wrote: post #76

Can't help but think of the obvious time and time again with the faux-sharing economy. Sharing is a pathetic use of neural linguistics, you're not sharing, your not doing anyone a kindness, you're making money and you're providing a service. Uber and Airbnb will be regulated legislative or through unions. Ask yourself just wtf are cabs so much more inefficient than Uber and hotels more expensive then Airbnb? Few driv…

I don't think unionization will be possible with Uber drivers. Uber doesn't own the cars and doesn't technically employ the drivers (in most states) - so there isn't any way for the Uber drivers to organize, collude, and force ranks.

Plus, its fairly well set up for "scabs" to make anything unionized ineffective. Uber will just respond: "no thanks" to any union strikes. Without the union colluding with the city or state governments to monopolize or cartel the industry... Part time drivers will just see "surge pricing" and "more pickups" to make part time easy money on.

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#109

Post by bogomipz » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:49 AM UTC

holografix wrote: post #76

Can't help but think of the obvious time and time again with the faux-sharing economy. Sharing is a pathetic use of neural linguistics, you're not sharing, your not doing anyone a kindness, you're making money and you're providing a service. Uber and Airbnb will be regulated legislative or through unions. Ask yourself just wtf are cabs so much more inefficient than Uber and hotels more expensive then Airbnb? Few driv…

neural linguistics? Care to elaborate?

Re: Airbnb Is Suing San Francisco to Block Rental Rules

#110

Post by wvenable » Tue, Jun 28, 2016, 5:49 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #104

spikels wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing may not be the best name but there is clearly value to be gained by using valuable assets like cars, housing and spare time more intensively. What's fundamentally wrong with this?

Housing has the issue that someone who is there for a few days at most does not really have any incentive to care about their neighbors or the property they are staying in. Most people would not buy an apartment next to a hotel room.

My co-worker rents a condo on VRBO and the condo board is perfectly fine with the short-term renters as they have far more trouble with long-term renters.

The real issue is how much real estate isn't available for long term renters because short term rentals are so much more profitable and easy. It's killer on vacancy rates and drives up rents for everyone.