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An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

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101–109 of 109 posts

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#101
post #30

This strikes me as one of those great and terrible ideas. It has a tremendous potential for good, but it is one opt-out checkbox (Share the data you collect with the police to help catch criminals!) away from convincing the surveilled to create their own big brother. http://asofterworld.com/index.php?id=346

I highly doubt there will be such a checkbox. The "permission" to share will be buried in a EULA no one will ever read.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like you drive like an idiot. And so you should be marked as one, and are grumpy about it. Well, tough. Basically what you're doing is playing Russian roulette, and you keep "winning", well yeah, that happens, right up until it doesn't. Drive like a Google car. Stop being an idiot. Get a smiley face score.

Honestly, I bathe in idiocy because it works. One of the "tricks" I've picked up is that if I'm being tailgated in town or someone is otherwise driving next to me and won't stop I'll turn off traction control and "light up" the rear end of my car. Everyone 'scatters' at that point. A lot of people don't understand this driving style. I look like a complete idiot, but people pay attention to the idiots. They watch the…

I agree to an extent. I also drive "like an idiot" and haven't been in an accident aside from being t-boned in traffic when a very old person didn't stop for a red light. I'm also very engaged while driving and pay lots of attention to everything going on around me. I don't listen to music or eat or have children or do phone calls while driving. I also consider driving a hobby / sport and value continual life-long improvement in it. I practice in realistic driving games and I've been doing so since I was very young. I'm very interested in participating in track days and auto cross events. I do most of my own car maintenance, drive a manual, and I know how my vehicle works in quite deep detail. I also know how it handles at and beyond the limit, when it will break loose in the front and rear, how quickly it can stop and accelerate, how hard it can swerve.

This app and the related one about insurance liability (posted here maybe a week or two ago) would unfairly rate me, because I go against the risk model and win consistently. I also agree that there are MANY "safe" drivers whose indecision and timid driving leads to bad situations; merging at 45mph, slowing way down for ramps, stoping at yield signs, driving under the speed of traffic, braking unnecessarily in traffic, etc. However, since in my situation, the insurance company gets to charge me a lot more, they're incentivized against modeling drivers like me as less risky than someone who is involved in more accidents than me but drives well within the limits and doesn't understand what happens when they approach or exceed them.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#103
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This debate happens on HN again and again, but still: what privacy are you talking about in public space? Nobody has a problem with one person with a dashcam — why suddenly connecting these dashcams to a network that shares information is a problem?

> This debate happens on HN again and again, but still: what privacy are you talking about in public space? Nobody has a problem with one person with a dashcam If I'm not that one person I'd have a problem with that. > why suddenly connecting these dashcams to a network that shares information is a problem? Switching from dash cams to police helps a bit. I think most people would be okay with one (or a handful) of po…

Now put license plate readers facing every direction on every police car and send that information to a database where it's stored forever. Now link it to every other license plate scanner across the country, and make searching through someone's trips as easy as using a TiVo, with complete history on their location. You don't have to imagine though, because they do this today: http://gothamist.com/2016/01/26/license_plate_readers_nypd.p...

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, since it would amount to trial by media, where a person is found guilty / slandered as an asshole with no avenue to defend his position / state his case. What if he was driving like an asshole because he was speeding to the hospital or similar reasons?

Exactly. The crux of prejudice is that it makes people form an opinion before they have facts a.k.a. context. A lot of things are not what they seem at first and because people respond to well to "Occam's Razor," they choose the laziest explanation and penalize people they don't know. A real-life example: my friend was dating a woman whose brother got in an accident. After receiving painkillers, he became addicted to…

Just like credit scores. Their models aren't perfect, but the threshold for useful (for their benefit) is much lower, and profitable lower still. Since you're the product being sold and they're OK with many defects, and given that there are no financial consequences for you getting rolled up in a bad / inaccurate / predatory model, they don't care and aren't incentivized to fix it (and in fact in many cases are incentivized financially to keep it broken, since "hits" like that can be a selling point).

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#105

I wonder how well this will scale with time. I've certainly done things while driving that were reckless to varying degrees, I suspect most drivers have as well. How long until 50% of cars on the road have been tagged doing something reckless? Of course I can imagine a number of ways to handle this. On a more broad note, I wonder how useful it really is to know that a specific vehicle acted recklessly sometime in the…

I presume that the system would simply indicate the proportion of times that a vehicle is seen driving and performing a dodgy manoeuvre. If I'm seen on the roads 1,000 times and seen performing a dodgy lane change once (and I would like to apologise to the Mondeo driver on the A21 yesterday), that's the fact that should be recorded.

The thing is that there's not a 1:1 relationship between a "risky" maneuver and causing an accident. An example could be an F1 driver who takes curves at 20mph over the recommended speed in a sports car. Compare this mentally to a Prius driver who drives under the speed limit in the left lane. The Prius driver is "being safe" but causing a long line of tailgaters and people passing unsafely on the right, as well as agitating people and causing them to drive more aggressively. I doubt that the first few iterations of this system will take psychological effects on other drivers into account (if they ever consider that / have a profit motive to do so at all).

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#106
post #101
post #30

This strikes me as one of those great and terrible ideas. It has a tremendous potential for good, but it is one opt-out checkbox (Share the data you collect with the police to help catch criminals!) away from convincing the surveilled to create their own big brother. http://asofterworld.com/index.php?id=346

I highly doubt there will be such a checkbox. The "permission" to share will be buried in a EULA no one will ever read.

And every company who will sell you the compulsory insurance will have that verbiage in their EULA, thus making the choice "agree" vs "can't drive".

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#107

These kinds of apps are inevitable. We will see apps that rate drivers, workers, and just people. I'm not as worried about the apps, but rather with someone gaming the rankings. Both Yelp and Travelocity turned from awesome to pretty much useless within a few years. Reviews and ratings can be bought. Employees are forced to leave positive reviews.

Yup, they're inventing another game to play here, just like credit scores. If you know that you're playing a game and you understand the rules, you can usually figure out how to play better than most while investing the minimum amount of time playing. If you don't know that you're playing a game or you aren't aware of the rules, you'll spend a lot of time being upset and losing money, typically.

It's also true with credit cards. If you don't understand merchant fees and maximizing your rewards from purchases you'd otherwise make while simultaneously bolstering your credit score, you're leaving money on the table.

Humans will hopefully look back in a few hundred years and realize how futile and terrible of an idea it was to attempt to gamify every aspect of our lives so some company or another can extract a profit from the unsavvy, but since there is so much "value" to be "created" right now, I doubt that it'll happen any time soon under our current system of governance and beliefs about property, taxes, "free" markets, etc.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe there'll be an opportunity to drill down in the data. There's a huge wide spectrum of people who suck at driving (senile old people, oblivious soccer mom, boy-racer, etc) and I would be very surprised if they're all roughly equivalent.

Minor nit: I think your comment would be greatly enhanced if you changed some stereotypes, e.g. "soccer-mom" for "soccer-parent", "senile old" for "old" or "people with less reflexes" and "boy-racer" for just "racer". None of those relate 100% to the gender or age of the driver, IMHO :)

Soccer mom is an accepted phrase with known meaning. "Soccer parent" isn't.

Re: An AI dashcam app designed to rate every driver

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I bathe in idiocy because it works. One of the "tricks" I've picked up is that if I'm being tailgated in town or someone is otherwise driving next to me and won't stop I'll turn off traction control and "light up" the rear end of my car. Everyone 'scatters' at that point. A lot of people don't understand this driving style. I look like a complete idiot, but people pay attention to the idiots. They watch the…

I agree to an extent. I also drive "like an idiot" and haven't been in an accident aside from being t-boned in traffic when a very old person didn't stop for a red light. I'm also very engaged while driving and pay lots of attention to everything going on around me. I don't listen to music or eat or have children or do phone calls while driving. I also consider driving a hobby / sport and value continual life-long im…

I'm in exactly your same boat. Do all the work on my car myself, only drive a manual, know how my tires will perform on various pavement at various temperatures, wear driving shoes, leave the radio off, etc., because I'm an enthusiast. A few years ago I was teaching my son to drive on slick roads so we were spinning cookies, doing bootlegger turns, and using engine power rather than braking to get out of situations in the county fairgrounds parking lot. There was no one around, nothing to run into, but yet a local officer started circling us on the perimeter lot road, at which point I had my son back off for safety reasons since there was another car in the parking lot. Anyway, he decided to light us up, then threatened my son and myself (because he had a learners permit) with reckless driving charges. And so it is in the US, land of the ignorant when it comes to actually learning how to drive or having the ability to teach our kids how to drive in an abandoned parking lot. I much, much, much prefer Germany in this regard. They really do get it on this front.
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