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All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

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Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#101

Post by kurlberg »

WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

The devil is in the details: one possible outcome is that researchers must pay journals for open access publication, and this could change "'small science' fields" into 'big science' ones. I.e., a good but not grant funded researcher will need to find a 'rich' colleague to pay for the publication fee. Whether the 'rich' person should be a coauthor is then of course a matter of negotiation.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#102

Post by Tehnix »

merijnv wrote: post #20
maerF0x0 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet, in practice, this will mean some researchers will avoid public funds as it will come with overhead they do not want (publishing rules). But for most this will be a big win.

Ahahahahaha. First of all: Researchers won't avoid public funds, because there's never enough money. Second of all: Most researchers HATE academic publishers and being forced to sign over their copyright to a paywall in exchange for nothing. But institutional evaluation criteria force you to do so. EU banning non-open publications will force publishers to allow open access OR force universities to revise their criter…

>Ahahahahaha. >First of all: Researchers won't avoid public funds, because there's never enough money.

What if though, they actually get their money from private funding, like a ton of research projects do. You cast this of as a thing even weird to even consider, but this just implies you don't seem to have found yourself in academia ever (or if so, without any actual colleagues).

I certainly agree that no researcher would prefer a non-open journal vs an open journal, but if the former means a stand-still of their career and the latter means an advancement, then the latter is far more valuable for them.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#103

Post by semi-extrinsic »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #84
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold open access needs to die, and "open access fees" with it. Seriously, there is no STEM field I know of where you can't find good journals that allow posting of preprints. Green open access solves all the problems at zero additional cost.

Gold open access is where the authors pay the journal a fee for open access publishing. I don't see what's wrong with that and actually I think it's the best approach. The journal offers a service (editing, hosting, ...) and charge for that. Very simple.

The main problem is that the open access fees are so insane. Publishers currently have ridiculous profit margins, and of course they're going to try and maintain them.

Unless some US/EU regulations kick in and set a reasonable max limit to open access fees, the situation is just as bad (perhaps even worse) than the status quo:

Now, researchers from "poor" universities, small research institutuons, third world countries etc. don't get full access to the published literatute. But at least they can publish freely. If gold open access becomes the standard, they won't afford publishing anymore.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#104

Post by graffitici »

Does anyone have any insights regarding the "foreign startup visas". Does that legislation have a name I can use to track progress?

It's quite annoying to have to apply for week-long business visas every time I have to travel to Europe. Especially in the summer, when it takes 2 months just to get an appointment with the consulate..

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#105

Post by IanCal »

heimatau wrote: post #95
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

I know many may disagree but I'm curious about this movement of 'publicly funded should be publicly available' wouldn't this infringe on national competitiveness? Like India nor the USA didn't funded these studies but...those people will have access to these research papers? Talk about a free lunch. And potentially demotivating to other countries, as they could be like 'well, EU did it...let's lower our investments i…

What would be the reasoning behind dropping funding? That you can read the output of another country instead of duplicating work?

I doubt heavily that would happen but even if it did that'd be a good thing.

> It's my opinion that there should be a gateway and one must us their state ID or something.

A full, international login system for every person in the EU just in case someone else in the world might want to read a paper? That sounds expensive and complicated compared to just using the web as it exists.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#106

Post by jupp0r »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #83
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

> I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund Most researchers will publish in journals that publish open access for a fee and the money for the fee has to come from somewhere. So in the end the public will spend as much money as they are doing so far.

True, but this at least sets the incentives right to create a system outside of rent-seeking publishers. Journal editors are unpaid for the most part anyway, might as well make that a community effort.

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#107

Post by IanCal »

zmb_ wrote: post #43
intrasight wrote: post #12

What does this mean in practice? Will the EU force the publishers to make them freely accessible? Will the EU only allow scientists to publish in open journals? Europe indirectly funds a lot of research. This will bleed into the workflow of scientists worldwide.

I just went through this discussion in an EU funded project, and the consensus was that complying is up to the individual partners. In our case all academic partners decided to comply by posting preprints on their websites (contentwise identical to the accepted version), which is allowed by both ACM and IEEE.

I really dislike this approach. Finding the free version is harder and the links are much less likely to be permanent. I've found a huge amount of data, code and extra material is simply missing now. In 20 years are you confident someone will maintain the same url and content?

Can you afford the open access option with the journals you want to submit to?

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#108

Post by comboy »

kurlberg wrote: post #101
WhoBeI wrote: post #61

I think this is a really good move. About bloody time to. I shouldn't have to pay twice to read research papers I helped fund and I certainly shouldn't be paying a private company for it. EU is saying that when and if you choose to publish papers based on publicly funded research you must ensure those papers will be publicly available. This means you must budget for any cost associated with it but since your budget a…

The devil is in the details: one possible outcome is that researchers must pay journals for open access publication, and this could change "'small science' fields" into 'big science' ones. I.e., a good but not grant funded researcher will need to find a 'rich' colleague to pay for the publication fee. Whether the 'rich' person should be a coauthor is then of course a matter of negotiation.

But does it say anywhere that it has to be a science journal? Isn't it enough for them to put the paper on their website to comply with that law?

Re: All European scientific publicly funded articles to be freely accessible by 2020

#109

Post by Faaak »

hackuser wrote: post #68
holyoly wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense... How does having one screwed up system justify another? Maybe we should start paying twice for groceries too, because we pay twice for toll roads and research papers...

My point is, whether or not you pay a fair amount doesn't depend on how many times you pay. Let's say your fair share is $10; $3 goes via taxes and $7 via the other mechanism. Here's a couple of scenarios where it's a good choice: 1) The new road is 60% in the public interest and 40% in the interest of its users, so 60% is paid with taxes and 40% via tolls. 2) Society feels it's reasonable that all children, regardle…

Have you actually published a paper ? You (the researcher) don't earn money from the publication of one.
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