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How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

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Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#101
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that a 20% ROI on the price of the development of the drug sounds reasonable. But the 11B was NOT the price of development; that would have been much lower. Assuming it was 1B (typical number thrown about), then a profit of 200M per year seems reasonable. Cost of manufacture of most drugs is negligible. Assuming they sell 100M pills/year, charging $10/pill (of $840/dose) seems quite fair.

How do you think Silicon Valley would work if the ROI on their unicorns was limited to 20%?

We are talking 20% ROI, year after year, for the duration of the patent (17 years). That's a 22x ROI. Most SV investors would drool themselves into a pool at the thought.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just out of curiosity, at what point would the cost of the drug not met your definition of fair?

I'd say that a 20% ROI on the price of the development of the drug sounds reasonable. But the 11B was NOT the price of development; that would have been much lower. Assuming it was 1B (typical number thrown about), then a profit of 200M per year seems reasonable. Cost of manufacture of most drugs is negligible. Assuming they sell 100M pills/year, charging $10/pill (of $840/dose) seems quite fair.

I think you're just replying to the parent's curiosity, but the talk about fairness seems to hint at wanting the government to regulate how much profit private citizens are allowed to have. That to me seems scarier than anything they've done.

It does seem like they got a great deal.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#103

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

I have a private global (excluding USA) medical insurance that covers costs (no in-patient) up to 1M and it costs me $1k/year. I've been hearing about Obamacare for years and always thought "well, it's good that more people will have insurance". But when my colleagues in US told me what their deductibles on a good insurance plan are (thousands of dollars. my deductibles are $375) I was floored.

The whole medical system in US is broken. This morning I had a strange thought... I need to prepare for trips to US the same way I'd prepare for going to a third-world country: by buying a special medical insurance! It's one of the important TODO items when going to certain countries.

Fun fact: I can get a medical insurance that covers US with deductibles in low hundreds of dollars by doubling my not-so-high premium. As an expat. How crazy it is that I can get a better deal on insurance in US than local people?

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#104

I was under the impression most Pharma Companies will give it to you for free if you don't have insurance and can't afford it. Maybe it's different if you have insurance and they won't pay for it. The article is unfair mentioning Shkreli. He has always offered his drugs for free to anyone that couldn't afford them. It has always been his policy and continues to be so. I think it was the Insurers and their paid for Po…

> The article is unfair mentioning Shkreli. He has always offered his drugs for free to anyone that couldn't afford them.

[citation needed]

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#105
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but that's not going to happen. If a big pharm company doesn't provide India-priced versions of drugs, the Indian government just declares the patent invalid and lets generics produce it for free (yes, this happens).

Sounds like a good decision by india

[deleted]

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#106

A quick Google search shows that they paid $11 billion for the company that sells the drug(Sovaldi), and earned $1.3 billion off of it[1] in 2016. They make half of that in the US, and something like 10% of it in all places that aren't the US, Europe, or Japan. That's a 12% return in 2016, which isn't nearly as good as the comments in this thread would have you believe. It's an okay return, but it wouldn't really be…

Ignoring any other aspect of your comment, I would highly suggest you to do a bit more research on Hepatitis C before suggesting it only concerns "druggies" and those who "have sex with weirdos carrying diseases." In fact, a large portion of those currently impacted (and especially those who would now be in an acute condition where this drug would most likely be literally life-saving) contracted the disease through hospital blood transfusions before 1992 [1] when there was not a proper diagnostic test [2]. As such, it is a condition that very much cuts across the population and income levels.

[1] "Before 1992, when widespread screening of the blood supply began in the United States, Hepatitis C was also commonly spread through blood transfusions and organ transplants." - http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/hcv/cfaq.htm

[2] Though even that might be disputable per http://www.theguardian.com/society/2007/may/26/health.politi....

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#107
post #22

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

India can break patents on drugs it considers too expensive. The real danger is if this sort of thing makes drugs unprofitable pharma companies won't spend any money researching drugs to treat uncommon conditions, and the drug will never exist to start with. We'll get endless varieties of new opioids, blood pressure pills, pecker perkers, and not much else.

I always hear this argument, but never any evidence to back it up. Is it simply regurgitating econ 101? There must be some economic incentive? Any time people die from a disease, that alone creates an incentive for those left living to find a cure.

What econ doesn't teach is that people are not perfectly rational creatures. Just like we will find people who will write code for free, who will make music for free, there will always be people who are searching for cures for the sake of searching for cures.

I don't buy the argument that only Big Pharma who can deliver cures. As the article pointed out, Gilead didn't develop the cure. They bought the company that did.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#108
If you remove a bunch of constraints, you can imagine governments paying for country-wide license to the patent, and then individuals just pay enough to cover manufacturing and delivery. I'm not sure if there was any payment that went along with granting India the $1000 price. I know India carries a big-stick of "invalidating" the patent. Sure, they could have just taken the IP for themselves, which basically means Americans just bare a larger share of the overall cost. The fact is that this drug is tremendously valuable for India, so I'm glad they were able to come to some pricing agreement.

Selling those drugs back into the US market clearly goes against the pricing agreement. Based on what I read in those articles about Paul Le Roux, these online drug outfits have way more volume than you might expect, and they apparently can run for a long time before being shut down. This is partly a submarine ad in that sense, even naming sources. You also might expect customs to intercept these packages, but when Le Roux can share the same FedEx account number across all their pill shipments, clearly inspection is expected to be lax. So the result is these pills could actually be pouring back into the country, and hiding within the inventory being sold for consumption actually inside India. It seems like Gilead revenue is strong for now, I don't know if they consider this to be a significant risk.

In some cases insurance will not cover if you are not showing symptoms. But if they do cover it, you will be on the hook for just the out-of-pocket maximum for that year. Any other health care you receive that year will be free, so that could also help justify the cost. But in this case the insurance company didn't want to cover it anyway, so the patient was forced to pursue a gray market purchase. I'm pretty sure Gilead is pushing hard for insurance companies to cover anyone with detectable disease regardless of symptoms, and ultimately that's what we want. There's a huge population that avoided the prior treatments, but would jump on this in a second.

Everyone who has HepC should get this drug. But if we can't afford to cure everyone today, how do prioritize access? And how do you limit access to an FDA approved drug for a diagnosed illness anyway, when the alternatives are more expensive and less effective? Well I guess in some places, like the NY AG is requiring coverage for commercial insurance plans. NYT reports that Medicaid is still denying coverage until the disease has advanced.

We want people to pay the "right" price for this drug, really a miracle cure which is lowering the cost of treatment actually. So how do you price it? The price to the insured patient today will vary based on the financial means of the patient. The revenue to Gilead is negotiated with insurance companies / benefit management companies, and is far below the sticker price.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#109

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

I have a private global (excluding USA) medical insurance that covers costs (no in-patient) up to 1M and it costs me $1k/year. I've been hearing about Obamacare for years and always thought "well, it's good that more people will have insurance". But when my colleagues in US told me what their deductibles on a good insurance plan are ( thousands of dollars. my deductibles are $375) I was floored. The whole medical sys…

America subsidizes the health care of the entire world. Because such a large portion of health profit comes from the US. If the US ceased to exist then global prices would increase and global research would decrease.

Re: How I Got the $84k Hepatitis C Drug for $1500 by Buying It from India

#110

I'm conflicted about this article. On the one hand, the pharmaceutical companies gouging ordinary Americans is abominable. Doing something to circumvent their greed is something to support. On the other hand, if enough people exploit loopholes like this, and the pharma company actually felt a significant drain in revenue, they may decide not to license the manufacture of these drugs in India at lower prices. If $84,0…

I agree the real problem is the high cost. It can be solved by extending patents in return for lower prices. Then the government must enforce patents internationally by putting pressure on countries that ignore patents. Another concern is poor quality from knockoff manufacturers. You can partially solve that by lowering costs because the original product becomes more competitive. You can also try to apply pressure on…

But stronger patent protection won't improve pricing... competition will. I think we should reduce extension patents to 5 years, and possibly even have compulsory licensing fees ($10 per day, per prescription for the first year, $8 for the second ... 6... 4... down to $2, then $1) for prescription drug patents starting at 5 years. And the penalty for an insufficient patent application for a third party to properly apply within the first 8 years would mean a loss of said patent.
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