Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone • Hacker News Board

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#101

Post by nkurz » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:47 AM UTC

Laforet wrote: post #56

thirdsun wrote: post #31

I don't get it - some commenters are suggesting that the authors of those papers aren't paid, but the publisher is. Why would the author want to limit the spread and accessibility of his work in such a way? As an outsider who doesn't have any experience with scientific papers and how to get them, it seems very obvious to me that there should be a huge demand for an open platform to publish and read those papers - fro…

I've just had a paper accepted last week in a traditional journal (peer-reviewed and paywalled) and I'd share a few things I know and feel about scientific publishing from an anthor's perspective. The publisher provide a valuable service to authors. Their online submission protal was a joy to use and their staff very friendly and responsive. Once a panel has decided that my submission was at least fit for further con…

it was forwarded to three peer-reviewers who may and may not be reimbursed for their time

Your phrasing implies that there are journals in your field that regularly pay their peer-reviewers. As far as I know, it's really rare that journals pay for peer review, and most of those only pay a token amount[1]. Are you actually unsure of this journal's policy, or is there some other reason you phrased it like that?

[1] http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/20930/are-there-...

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#102

Post by JupiterMoon » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:48 AM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #96

a_bonobo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your career is based on how "good" the journals are that you publish in. If I publish a paper in Nature, Nature Genetics, Science, etc. then I can hand-pick my next position. The more glam-journals I publish in, the better my chances for tenure.

Can you cross-publish / self-publish as well?

It depends upon your field and your country but many journals require a copyright assignment. They also often require that the work has not been published elsewhere previously.

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#103

Post by awendt » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:50 AM UTC

VMG wrote: post #87

chris_wot wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has anyone got a breakdown of actual costs incurred by Elsevier? Note I don't include marketing their journals, I mean a breakdown labour costs, rent for buildings (where the building are located) and other production costs. I'd like to know their revenue, and a full price list per journal they publish. I very much believe that if we looked at what they make in profits, we'll see that they can't justify how much they…

Wikipedia: > In 2015, Elsevier reported a profit margin of approximately 37% on revenues of £2.070 billion. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elsevier

I'm wondering if they'd make more money with very cheap subscriptions (a.k.a. "long tail") and no legal department.

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#104

Post by chris_wot » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:51 AM UTC

donlzx wrote: post #68

finfet1 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. I have gone through academia and am now in industry; the other day I wanted to read and browse basic papers in IEEE Explore for basic knowledge on new topics. Since I am no longer a student, I am willing to pay money - as much as hundreds to get unlimited access. Instead, for hundreds, IEEE explore offers a measly ("generous") 25 downloads a month or some such non-sense It just seemed so miserly of the…

After the IEEE $25 monthly service came out, I subscribed for three years until finally canceled it. Honestly most of the papers I downloaded were junks, the only reason I download them was to verify the available references. The paper quality declination plus publication quantity inflation are the main reasons in this "Sci-Hub" crisis.

This sounds like an increasingly commented on issue: there are now hundreds and hundreds of specialty journals, but quality is patchy. In fact, I think we may be seeing inherent problems coming to the fore now that journals are more focussed on profits: often there is publication bias towards certain topics; in other cases the bias is towards positive results and breakthroughs, with a lack of enthusiasm for publishing retractions or establishing reproducibility.

One thing that always sticks in my craw is that the raw data is very rarely published for analysis. Many may disagree, but I think that by not publishing the raw data for experiments the temptation to commit academic fraud is very high.

I often wonder about some of the more recent scandals whether it might have been picked up a lot faster had the data been more readily available.

I also have noticed that many journals don't say who the reviewers are after publication. For instance, I was looking at body pyschotherapy the other day and came across something called biodynamic analysis, which appears to be a widely held and well respected view within the subdiscipline. I was amazed to discover that something called "grounding" was a serious concept that underpins this analysis, so I looked at the Wikipedia references and discovered that there was at least one journal citation to The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine. The article seems to be attempting to make a link between bloody viscosity and electrical grounding of humans to the earth! [1]

Now there is another article that shows there is virtually no impact on the body from the same journal, so I started to wonder how this passed peer review. The answer is - I have no way of knowing as they don't make it clear what their review policies and procedures are, and they appear to charge authors to publish work.

In other words - it's pseudoscience dressed up in credibility. And it is making a serious impact in the world of psychology!

1. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3576907/

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#105

Post by Zelmor » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:51 AM UTC

It is in the interest of the general public to mirror these services as many time as we should. Paywalls for scientific articles are holding back the whole species. Fusion reactor when? Maybe when the patents for technological advance will not be held by oil companies around the world, whose short term interests cap the our technological progress to make the world a more livable place.

I have a couple PhD student friends, who give me first hand account of biology articles being inaccessible in 2nd world countries due to paywalls and financial limitations of research facilities. It is holding back research in just about every field, I suppose.

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#106

Post by kqr » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:57 AM UTC

chris_wot wrote: post #71

Jerry2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine wasting some researcher's valuable time on tracking papers for you! The gall of these publishing companies never ceases to amaze.

Not very helpful for Wikipedia researchers. Or people who are outside the walled garden of academia!

To be fair, I haven't set a foot in my university for 3 years (planning to return soon!) but since I still send them the occasional email asking to be registered for a course I'm considered active there and get access to a lot of publications as long as I'm logged in to their systems.

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#107

Post by ryanlol » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 7:58 AM UTC

philjohn wrote: post #86

ryanlol wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He might have been in prison now For hypothetical crimes he could've committed had he lived? Because he certainly wouldn't be in prison for things he actually did.

He likely would be in Prison, because he'd be forced to plead out to lesser crimes, or face the prospect of a cripplingly expensive trial with the threat of higher sanctions.

No, that's complete bullshit.

Had Aaron pleaded guilty, he'd be out by now as both of the plea agreements he was offered would have meant 6 months or less .

And trial? Why would he have gone to trial? There was no question of his guilt.

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#108

Post by ryanlol » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 8:00 AM UTC

ryanlol wrote: post #29

Artoemius wrote: post #14

I'm sad Aaron Swartz did not live to see this unfolding. He might have been in prison now, but he would still be a world-class hero.

> He might have been in prison now For hypothetical crimes he could've committed had he lived? Because he certainly wouldn't be in prison for things he actually did.

For whatever reason lots of people here seem to disagree.

Could any of the 4 downvoters clarify in what conceivable scenario would Aaron still be in prison if he was alive?

Had he pled guilty, he would undoubtedly be out by now. And going to trial obviously wasn't a realistic option considering the plea deals he was offered (BTW If someone here disagrees about that, I'd really like to know why.).

Read:

http://volokh.com/2013/01/14/aaron-swartz-charges/

http://volokh.com/2013/01/16/the-criminal-charges-against-aa...

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#109

Post by idm » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 8:06 AM UTC

ryanlol wrote: post #107

philjohn wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He likely would be in Prison, because he'd be forced to plead out to lesser crimes, or face the prospect of a cripplingly expensive trial with the threat of higher sanctions.

No, that's complete bullshit. Had Aaron pleaded guilty, he'd be out by now as both of the plea agreements he was offered would have meant 6 months or less . And trial? Why would he have gone to trial? There was no question of his guilt.

While he might have been free by now, he would still have been labeled a felon.

Re: Who's downloading pirated papers? Everyone

#110

Post by tomp » Fri, Apr 29, 2016, 8:09 AM UTC

philjohn wrote: post #83

Blahah wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2014 Elsevier's profit margin was 34% http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/93138f3e-87d6-11e5-90de-f44762bf98...

Wonder what the margin on their e-journals are like, vs printed journals. They get the research papers for free, the editors don't get paid ... it's such a scam, and always has been.

Well, they do need to employ a highly paid CEO... /s