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The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

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Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#101

Post by thaumasiotes »

dagw wrote: post #28
thaumasiotes wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suicidal ideation (as well as completed suicide, of course) is known to be higher in the indigenous peoples of Canada than in the white population. I have seen it advanced that the eskimo tradition of suicide by walking out into the wilderness if you're a burden on your family probably has something to do with this. This is mildly in conflict with the finding that there's more suicide in Greenland in summer than in w…

This is mildly in conflict with the finding that there's more suicide in Greenland in summer than in winter, but worth considering. I've seen some theories that people in general don't commit suicide while under active hardship, but after the hardship lets up a bit and they have time to reflect on it. Also relative hardship is far more important than absolute hardship. During the winter everybody is a bit miserable a…

> I've seen some theories that people in general don't commit suicide while under active hardship, but after the hardship lets up a bit and they have time to reflect on it.

When suicide is driven by an established tradition of leaving so that your family doesn't starve, you really expect it to occur in winter. By the time the hardship is gone, so is the justification for suicide.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#102

Post by superobserver »

warfangle wrote: post #30
exDM69 wrote: post #18

I live 60 degrees northern latitude in a country with bad suicide statistics and the winters do get pretty harsh on you mentally. And there's still millions of people living norther than I do. Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you've never experienced the northern spring where each day is 10+ minutes longer than the previous, you'll ne…

When people are really depressed, they don't kill themselves. Because they have no energy to. Once they go on antidepressants, they go on suicide watch. It's the most dangerous time. Because they'll still be depressed, but they'll finally have the energy to get up. And they just might have the energy to do themselves in.

It would be helpful to mention that the antidepressants of which you speak are SSRI's. A rare set of non-SSRI antidepressants, like Tianeptine,[0] do not have this deleterious effect.

[0]: http://www.tianeptine.com

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#103

Post by jlg23 »

dirktheman wrote: post #2

Fascinating long read, which gives a lot of insight in the struggles of daily life in these remote parts of our world. And no, it's not just the dark that makes people commit suicide. Of the top 10 countries with the highest suicide rates, only Lithuania can be considered as having a somewhat gloomy winter. The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance) than the countrie…

> The rest of the countries all get more sunlight (Guyana, Suriname and Sri Lanka for instance)

Guyana and Suriname have severe problems with their post-colonial status, very low income contrasted by wealth shown by western mining companies and their employees, a very big problem with alcoholism and very bad perspectives for most (soldiers turning barkeepers because they don't get paid, police extorting people in lieu of a living wage etc). I think the same reasons the author listed for Greenland might apply to those countries too.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#104

Post by ridgeguy »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #7

The novel "Smilla's Sense of Snow" by Peter Høeg is in large part about the alienation and culture shock of an Inuit woman in Denmark. P.S: I like the article's side bar about responsible reporting on suicide. That's forgotten far too often in the rush for gripping headlines and clicks.

I'll second "Smilla's Sense of Snow" as both a good read and a portal to some insight on issues in the NPR article.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#105

Post by tomsthumb »

dpatrick86 wrote: post #96
jensen123 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Highest suicide rates occur during the spring, around the vernal equinox not around the darkest time of the year. If you don't take vitamin D pills or consume (lots of) cod liver oil, then your vitamin D levels will be lowest in the spring. If I remember correctly, at around 60 degrees north, you have to wait until the end of April until you get vitamin D from the sun.

Interesting. Are there any studies on this lowest-in-spring observation?

Rhonda Patrick talks about vitamin D quite bit (she is awesome). I'm coming up empty on seasonal relationships but it would surprise me if she hasn't mentioned something about it.

It does make sense though. If you're not taking supplements and the sun isn't direct enough to make any on your own until late April then late spring would be the longest point in the year you've gone without proper sunlight.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#106

Post by cperciva »

toyg wrote: post #11
cperciva wrote: post #5

When I saw the title I thought this was going to be about Canada. Suicide rates are extremely high in some aboriginal communities; in Attawapiskat for example, 5% of the residents have attempted suicide in the past year. And I can't say that I really blame them. Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Kids growing up in Attawapiskat have nothing to look forward to. Those who l…

> Attawapiskat is an extremely isolated community, with few jobs and no amenities. Thing is, like the towns in the post, these have always been "isolated communities with few jobs", but they used to be somewhat content. The difference is that they (like everyone else) are now bombarded with very powerful messages about rich and successful white people living in the Big City. They are basically getting constantly sham…

They used to have plenty of jobs -- hunting, trapping, preserving meat, making clothes out of animal hides, etc.

To some extent, this should be a cautionary tale about the dangers of a universal basic income: Giving people enough money to prevent them from starving doesn't necessarily allow them to lead more meaningful lives.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#107

Post by AndrewKemendo »

wille92 wrote: post #59

Whenever I read about tribal communities coming into modernity, I can't help but think that our "first-world" culture gets a lot wrong. These communities seem to have a deep sense of narrative--you're a part of a greater cultural story, a spiritual story that's connected with place, nature, and family. There is a journey laid out for you rich with sacrament (e.g. the rite of passage to become an Inuit hunter in this…

It's all made up.

You either let someone else make up the story or you make one up for yourself.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#108

Post by grecy »

rconti wrote: post #95
grecy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live at 60 degrees also, and I agree with everything you said. The cold didn't bother me at all, even though I'm from a hot country originally. I rode my bike to work every day of the year in fact, even in -45C. I loved it. It's like being on another planet in it's beauty and differences. Like you said, it was always in late winter/early spring that I'd loose it a little. I'd grab a burger and beer after work, then…

Whitehorse, perhaps? I've read that Whitehorse has the highest rate of bicycle commuters. I can't fathom how that's possible, given the winters, and the fact that it's not particularly dense -- yeah, things aren't THAT far apart, but far enough that bicycling doesn't seem like the first choice in the winter.

Good guess!

Whitehorse is a mecca for people that are seriously into outdoor pursuits, so it makes sense that so many people want to ride to work.

When you live there, the winter is not a reason to not go outside. On the contrary, it often makes going outside easier because all the lakes and rivers are frozen, so you can explore very far and wide which you can't do in the summer due to lack of roads.

So riding to work in the winter makes perfect sense :)

Also, downtown is fairly small. From the farthest reaches of "downtown" to anywhere you'd be working is a max of 45 minutes on a bike. Most commutes are more like 15-30 mins. Though lots of people live 30-45 minutes by car out of town, which is not doable in the winter. Riding on the AK highway in winter is not an option, the plowing is not good enough.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#109

Post by ekianjo »

Kristine1975 wrote: post #86
Devthrowaway80 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warfangle is correct, I was warned specifically about this when I started treatment. When you go on an SSRI, your fatigue lifts before your mood does, which can lead to a few dangerous weeks.

Can confirm, "my" SNRI's package insert (it is about one meter long, in small print) warns that when starting treatment there's an increased risk of suicidal thoughts/suicide, especially in people under 25. Fun fact: The package insert also states: " It isn't completely clear how antidepressants work, but they can help increase the Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels in the brain." Very confidence-inspiring :-/

> Fun fact: The package insert also states: "It isn't completely clear how antidepressants work, but they can help increase the Serotonin and Noradrenaline levels in the brain." Very confidence-inspiring :-/

Well at least it's fair. The chemistry of the brain is still very poorly understood.

Note that many drugs were discovered to have effects before we knew HOW to explain why they work.

Re: The Arctic Suicides: It's Not the Dark That Kills You

#110

Post by onetimePete »

simonswords82 wrote: post #72
sevenless wrote: post #55

The section talking about contagion was interesting. What follows is pure speculation on my part and a bit of a ramble. I believe many mental illnesses, depression, suicidal behavior and anorexia among them, can be characterized as contagious. And perhaps some other things that aren't usually described as mental illnesses. The border between belief, religion and mental illness seems a bit fuzzy (echoes of Snow Crash)…

This is a very interesting thought process. Tumblr and 4chan in my mind are extreme examples of the unsterilised Internet you refer to.... > Consuming unfiltered internet might be looked on in a few years like drinking unsterilized water For the last year or so I've decided to avoid news outlets as much as possible. So I've updated my Reddit subscriptions to remove anything that might be a news channel, I no longer f…

I have my very own opinion on people who refuse to perceive the reality of the human mind.

If one has trapped himself in such a bubble, he/she is unfit to really communicate with other human beings, lead endeavor of complex composed groups and manage endeavors going into crisis situations. Please, if you ever form a team, state your perception of the species ahead of time, so people know what they are in for. The negative is a building block of reality, it has to be seen, it has to be handled, worked with, contained and used. One should not work as director if one is unable to communicate and take the company of for example bipolar people. Please don't take this as a insult. I just think your way of not viewing the world is dangerous and should be made obvious via disclaimer. Which in a way you have made with this post, so please do this in future conversations.

Regards.

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