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Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

nytimes.com

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Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#101

Post by JohnTHaller »

downandout wrote: post #79
nothrabannosir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a lot of down-vote worthy responses to OP, and more downvotes. But in this case, I honestly don't see it: why is this not a fair question? I mean, in a genuinely neutral sense; isn't he right?

>in a genuinely neutral sense Asking if someone supports politicians that claim to be eco-conscious while raising campaign money, who are almost universally left-leaning, is far from "neutral". There are places on the Internet to espouse political support for either side. This, however, is not one of them.

There is a difference between supporting politicians who support changes to reduce carbon emissions and increase support for renewables and supporting politicians who pretend climate change does not exist or is not affected by us.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#102

Post by beatpanda »

fche wrote: post #60
n72 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "An estimated 30 million small-scale fishermen and women depend on reefs for their livelihoods, more than one million in the Philippines alone. In Indonesia, fish supported by the reefs provide the primary source of protein."

Thanks, so it's a human-food availability concern.

It's also inherently a problem that we're going to lose lots of plant and animal species that depend on the coral reefs, simply because those plants and animals are beautiful and we will have been responsible for their deaths.

"Well don't worry, we'll just get food from somewhere else" is not a real answer. At some point, life on a dead planet just isn't worth it anymore.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#103

Post by kordless »

fche wrote: post #42
banach wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop eating animal-based food. See http://www.cowspiracy.com/ for details.

Cowspiracy's points on GHG emission and water consumption are simply illiterate. They don't recognize the concept of a net flow. (e.g.: carbon that comes out of a cow first went into a cow - via its food - which got apprx. all its carbon from the air)

It actually doesn't matter whether what they say is true or not. Arguing this point won't fix the climate, but supporting it just might because someone paid attention when you were being positive about it.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#105

Post by marze »

xfactor973 wrote: post #32

I planted about 50 fruit trees and bushes when I moved into my new place. I also converted the electric to 100% renewable. Other than dumping my natural gas heater I'm not sure what's left that I can do to help reduce climate change.

Research threats to coral that aren't climate change related, such as deforestation generated silt in rivers, disruption of ocean ecosystems due to destruction of top predators (such as sharks), overfishing, and excessive fertilizer runoff from agriculture. There are groups (not enough) working on those problems than can use support.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#106

Post by gedy »

blondie9x wrote: post #85
gedy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Washington could be taken over by the Green party, ban fossil fuels, etc - and we'd still be in trouble due to China, et al with their increasing CO2 output. Reminds me a bit of banning plastic bags in California to help the ocean. That's lovely, but given Asia dumps something like 150 times the amount plastics into the ocean, so is basically meaningless.

gedy regardless we must lead by example. We have seen that guilt and public inertia can drive others to act. Being exemplary does have an impact. China signed a climate deal with the US to limit emissions for the first time in 2014. In 2015 they and earlier this year they signed a global deal on climate also. Leading and being by example can lead to change.

In the competition of nations, leading by example is fairly useless. Nations do what they want to move forward.

China dumps a lot of CO2, and it's growing. http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/sci...

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#107

Post by n72 »

fche wrote: post #60
n72 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: "An estimated 30 million small-scale fishermen and women depend on reefs for their livelihoods, more than one million in the Philippines alone. In Indonesia, fish supported by the reefs provide the primary source of protein."

Thanks, so it's a human-food availability concern.

I think it's also the problem that we just can't predict what the consequences are of such a large ecological change.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#108

Post by whitneyrzoller »

ra1n85 wrote: post #69
appleflaxen wrote: post #3

There is a whole lot of climate change evidence coming out that is terrifying. At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? Falling renewable prices are not enough, and use-based taxes are the single best way to let individuals make their own decisions about what/how much to use. Carbon credits are a good market-based solution t…

>At what point does this become so scary that something happens to increase the taxes on fossil fuels so that consumption will go down? You're jumping to conclusions on the actual solution to the problem. I suggest unpacking this problem a bit more. Given the time scales, and potential delay between addition of CO2 into the atmosphere and consequence, I imagine that we should also be thinking "How do we adjust to our…

"Deal with it" is what you've come up with after "unpacking the problem a bit more"? As the Donald would say, "sad".

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#109

Post by ccallebs »

aqme28 wrote: post #74
fche wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cowspiracy's points on GHG emission and water consumption are simply illiterate. They don't recognize the concept of a net flow. (e.g.: carbon that comes out of a cow first went into a cow - via its food - which got apprx. all its carbon from the air)

Cows produce a lot of methane, which is far worse than carbon dioxide. Additionally, something has to ship all that food to the cows.

Often in Texas, it's cheaper to ship the cows to the food than the alternative. Not trying to be pedantic, but it's an interesting factoid.

Re: Climate-Related Death of Coral Around World Alarms Scientists

#110

Post by downandout »

giaour wrote: post #100
downandout wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>in a genuinely neutral sense Asking if someone supports politicians that claim to be eco-conscious while raising campaign money, who are almost universally left-leaning, is far from "neutral". There are places on the Internet to espouse political support for either side. This, however, is not one of them.

Supporting environmentally friendly legislation is orthogonal to the economic concerns that divide the left and right. It's true that environmentalists are associated with the left in the US, but that's not true everywhere in the world.

And therein lies the problem. In the US, one cannot support politicians that will be amenable to reasonable, environmentally friendly legislation without embracing leftist economic ideologies as well. That said, once again I think HN is not the place to discuss or voice support for specific political views one way or the other. There are plenty of fact-based, scientific discussions to be had on this topic.
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