How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution • Hacker News Board

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#101

Post by Swannie » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 3:44 AM UTC

This sentance caught my attention:

"What is most important, we guarantee to purchase 80 percent of their crops for the first five years at triple the market rate."

I assume 5 years at today's market rates. That would give them 5 years to stimulate a demand for the products? If that demand doesn't materialise, then we just end up with another crushing defeat for the worlds fishermen.

I'm extremely sympathetic to many of the ideas (though, maybe not the forward contracts), but I fear that if they are not profitable with a smaller, shorter, purchase support scheme, this is doomed.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#102

Post by intended » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:02 AM UTC

petra wrote: post #85

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

>> Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. I think biomanufacturing of protein via bacteria/algae could be the cheapest. For example there's even a company, prottero, making sugar via bacteria at 1/3 of the cost of sugar cane. And theoretically with those of methods , you might be able to feed the world from an area the size of new jersey.

Feeding the world isn't the issue -

1) The world being able to afford it's food is the issue.

2) getting food to people in time without spoilage is the issue.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#103

Post by adwn » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 7:59 AM UTC

thangalin wrote: post #96

adwn wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lockheed Martin has yet to produce any evidence that they have achieved break-even power under laboratory conditions, not to mention a device that scales to MW levels or delivers cheap energy. I wouldn't hold my breath.

My point wasn't about Lockheed Martin per se. With ICF, MCF, and MTF, and many instances of those classes of fusion machines being constructed and tested globally, there is a path and plan to make nuclear fusion viable in the future. Doesn't matter that the first machine costs billions, the price will come down at each every subsequent iter ation, even if it takes 100 years (or the discovery of room-temperature super…

> With ICF, MCF, and MTF, and many instances of those classes of fusion machines being constructed and tested globally, there is a path and plan to make nuclear fusion viable in the future. Doesn't matter that the first machine costs billions, the price will come down at each every subsequent iteration

You could have made the same argument about nuclear fission. Fission energy has been viable for decades, and yet we still don't have free energy. You didn't give any reasons why it would be different for fusion.

By the way, your reasoning is flawed: From your assumption that initial prototypes are expensive (which is valid), and the assumption that subsequent commercial designs will be less expensive (also most likely valid), you conclude that it will eventually be so cheap as to be essentially free (definitely invalid conclusion, with lots and lots of counterexamples).

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#104

Post by simonh » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 8:47 AM UTC

intended wrote: post #102

petra wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. I think biomanufacturing of protein via bacteria/algae could be the cheapest. For example there's even a company, prottero, making sugar via bacteria at 1/3 of the cost of sugar cane. And theoretically with those of methods , you might be able to feed the world from an area the size of new jersey.

Feeding the world isn't the issue - 1) The world being able to afford it's food is the issue. 2) getting food to people in time without spoilage is the issue.

Minimizing the environmental impact of farming isn't an issue?

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#105

Post by kriro » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 9:04 AM UTC

A couple of years ago I researched how viable it would be to farm noble crayfish. I just figured it would be kind of cool to have ponds filled with them. My napkin calculation was "lol no" but I never gave it a real thought. Was mostly wondering about interesting uses for a pond :P There were some prohibitive issues with diseases as well.

If by chance anyone ITT does small scale freshwater "farming" I'd be interested in hearing some stories. Breaking even or a slight loss would be nice as well as I think it could be an interesting hobby (like beekeeping)

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#106

Post by kriro » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 10:10 AM UTC

Fascinating on many fronts. One of the most interesting quotes: """According to the Department of Energy, if you were to take a network of our farms equaling half the size of the state of Maine, you could replace all the oil in the United States."""

I also love the general idea of using oysters as "cleaning as a service" (Bronx river). Pretty cool approach to give up some food farming for cleaning the water.

Pretty inspiring story :)

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#107

Post by ordbajsare » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 11:57 AM UTC

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

>The concern is that climate change

An none concern since climate change is an new world order scam to get us to hand over our resource an civil liberties to the governments.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#108

Post by foxhop » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 1:11 PM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #64

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

My biggest concern is that along with the nitrogen and phosphate runoff come pesticides and other less savory compounds that then bio-accumulate in the farmed shellfish.

I live in Connecticut, Long Island sound is like my back yard, the waters are green from too much Nitrogen which blooms algae.

All plants need Nitrogen to grow, there is a surplus for various reasons in the sound, that surplus needs to come down and this idea is great.

I'm curious whats worse, pesticides directly applied, or the possibility of pesticides in run off?

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#109

Post by hammock » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 1:19 PM UTC

reqctomaniac wrote: post #10

We need open source resources on how to build and maintain farms like this. Unfortunately these guys are not sharing yet, at least I couldn't find any detailed information. I'd love to try this myself, but as a complete novice i'd need a lot basic information - like what species to grow, how to get seeds and plant them, etc.

If you or anyone else is seriously interested, leave your email and I'll shoot you a note.

My buddy has started commercially farming oysters and other seafood the last few years. The info is not widely available, but you can find it if you look. Many existing farmers (at least half) are fully willing to share knowledge with each other, give you a tour, etc. The fact is they are more in competition with traditional oystermen than they are with other farmers from another region. Another great source of information is the aquaculture folks in your state's DNR (or similar department). Set up a meeting with them and ask away.

Re: How an Army of Ocean Farmers Are Starting an Economic Revolution

#110

Post by foxhop » Mon, Apr 04, 2016, 1:21 PM UTC

beambot wrote: post #77

rukuu_001 wrote: post #26

Aqua-farming shellfish is the closest thing to free protein we're going to get. My folks are involved with farming mussels in New Zealand. The farms are in a river mouth, putting the nitrogen and phosphate runoff from farms to good use. The phytoplankton they eat is replenished 500m down-current from the mussels. There's one major risk - the 'spat' - the baby mussels used to start a vertical mussel line - are harvest…

Honest question: How does that scale up? At first guess, I'd imagine there's insufficient area in (non-polluted) river mouths to create a large enough sustainable supply for world-wide demand.

Why does it need to scale up? I think scaling up is what caused problems with our planet, we need to start thinking locally.

For Connecticut, this is a local issue (too much Nitrogen in the sound) and this is a local solution that not only _reverses_ a problem, but produces real food and economy.

This economy doesn't have to be at scale, other places on this earth have different problems and require different solutions.

Research "greening the deserts" on youtube for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBLZmwlPa8A

We need to work with nature, not against it. Let nature do the work. A healthy natural system is the true meaning of wealth in this world, it works without ANY human or oil expense. A fly-wheel system that generates money without effort.

Reference: http://www.ct.gov/deep/cwp/view.asp?a=2719&q=325572&deepNav_... | "Each summer, the bottom waters in the western half of Long Island Sound experience hypoxia, or very low levels of dissolved oxygen. Extensive monitoring and modeling of Long Island Sound have identified the excessive discharge of nitrogen from human activities as the primary pollutant causing hypoxia. "