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On asking job candidates to code

philcalcado.com

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Re: On asking job candidates to code

#101

Post by innertracks »

Last week, I finished 2-3 hours of on-site interviews which required a flight and an overnight stay after an initial phone screen, a phone technical interview, and a short technical challenge online.

I was surprised how a couple really basic concepts evaporated from my head during the in-person white boarding. The questions though were reasonable and the interviewers were friendly. All in all a positive experience just an incredible investment of time it seems for all concerned.

The take away is I need to practice solving problems on a white board with just 3 hours of sleep. The sleep deprivation part might be the most important factor to simulate.

Hm. Maybe bourbon? Or a good cider?

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#102

Post by mikeash »

orng wrote: post #4

I really hate having to solve these kind of programming challenges. I've already sent you my CV, with references from former/current employers and co-workers. Call them up if you are worried that I'm lying on my résumé, don't waste my time by making me work for the chance of maybe getting a job as only payment. Doing multiple interviews already takes up enough of my time, seeing as I'm the one who has to commute to y…

No former employer is going to say "this guy can't program, don't hire him" for fear of getting sued. Co-workers might be friends who are covering for you, or just genuinely have no idea of your actual ability.

Taking up hours of a candidate's time is excessive, but it seems reasonable to ask for some demonstration of your ability, when so many candidates simply cannot code.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#103

Post by otabdeveloper1 »

jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

> ... and even told me he thought I was a better programmer than him.

Probably that's exactly why you were ignored. The guy was scared of competition. (Maybe they were looking for a tech lead and he felt threatened by your expertise.)

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#104

Post by dasboth »

sixtypoundhound wrote: post #72

The real problem here isn't coding interviews; its how we (hiring managers) approach the entire question. The goals of a technical interview should be: - Confirm the credentials presented aren't complete BS - Validate they know enough to be immediately helpful - Assess their long term potential (brains, social skills) Coding challenges tend to be good at the first two points but very questionable for the third. Incid…

"you would be silly not to include some form of practical test"

Yes, I'm coming to the realisation that it's idealistic to assume that anyone with N years experience will be at a certain level of ability.

"(potential) is best measured by talking with them about a project they really cared about"

I agree. I've always thought that once you've made sure that a candidate's programming knowledge isn't fabricated, the best way to evaluate them is to get talking about code. Whether that's proprietary code they've written but can't share, or it's on a GitHub profile for all to see shouldn't make a huge difference.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#105

Post by mtberatwork »

jcadam wrote: post #89

A couple of months ago I did a 'homework' assignment for an interview (it involved writing a simple REST service in go, even though I have at least one personal project demonstrating exactly this skill -- to an even greater degree -- in my github profile). During the phone-discussion after turning in the project, the mid 20-something lead developer couldn't find anything to nitpick (I could have) and even told me he…

> The fact that so many employers treat candidates like this

Don't give up. Most established companies aren't run by 20-somethings. If the seniors are already in their mid-20s and lack professionalism, then most likely there are other issues going on at this company. You may have dodged the proverbial bullet.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#106

Post by BBlarat »

I like Jeff Atwoods approach[0], hire the candidate for a short project (2-3 weeks) let the candidate a feel for the product and team while getting paid. And at the same time let the team get to know the candidate. I would love to go through a hiring process like that :)

[0]http://blog.codinghorror.com/we-hire-the-best-just-like-ever...

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#107

Post by emodendroket »

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #76
emodendroket wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, for one, am tired of processes that don't respect my time.

Would you rather Some Co. just hire you and try you out for a few months simply based on your resume?

There's got to be some middle ground between that and wasting all your time off/free time.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#108

Post by orng »

mikeash wrote: post #102
orng wrote: post #4

I really hate having to solve these kind of programming challenges. I've already sent you my CV, with references from former/current employers and co-workers. Call them up if you are worried that I'm lying on my résumé, don't waste my time by making me work for the chance of maybe getting a job as only payment. Doing multiple interviews already takes up enough of my time, seeing as I'm the one who has to commute to y…

No former employer is going to say "this guy can't program, don't hire him" for fear of getting sued. Co-workers might be friends who are covering for you, or just genuinely have no idea of your actual ability. Taking up hours of a candidate's time is excessive, but it seems reasonable to ask for some demonstration of your ability, when so many candidates simply cannot code.

> Taking up hours of a candidate's time is excessive, but it seems reasonable to ask for some demonstration of your ability, when so many candidates simply cannot code.

So why not simply ask technical questions during an interview? I'd think you'd be able to determine whether or not someone know what he is talking about by simply asking him a few questions on the matter.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#109

Post by alexhawdon »

to3m wrote: post #53
CiPHPerCoder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by probation periods? Something like... "Hi, I'd like to ask you to work for a very temporary contract with us so, if it doesn't work out, you have to scramble to find more work and maybe risk homelessness."

This is pretty standard in the UK. Your new full-time job is commonly effectively at-will for the first 3 months, and possibly more. See, e.g., http://www.jobsite.co.uk/worklife/probation-periods-19677/

I've no idea why this has been downvoted as it's correct.

For the last few years this has been written into law and employees don't get their full employment rights (such as the right to contest an unfair dismissal) until you've been employed for 12 months. (A de-facto one year probation period.)

I should note that employee rights during this probation period are probably stronger than in many US states.

Re: On asking job candidates to code

#110

Post by [deleted] »

Tunabrain wrote: post #9

> As brain-dead as I was after eight hours at my project, [..] Is giving out an 8+ hour programming project as part of the application process really considered good hiring practice? If you apply to five jobs, you're expected to spend an entire unpaid work week writing code that doesn't benefit anyone? If a company receives 20 applicants, their ideal candidate selection wastes a collective work month? I don't really…

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